Airsoft Surgeon Super Match

thepossible · January 14th, 2010, 07:29

Does anyone have some complete photos of this product?
It's really interesting but i'm not sure it works.

http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=26901

Thenooblord · January 14th, 2010, 08:09

broken link

ujiro · January 14th, 2010, 10:22

Ask Illusion about these. They do indeed work. Its an outer barrel, but not the tilt style. The outer barrel does not move at all.
This affords infinite slide durability. Since the barrel now never contacts the slide, there is no wear between the two.
While it takes away from the realism of the real steel tilting barrel, it affords greater durability (and really, who can notice if your barrel isn't tilting... nobody thats who).

Would definitely recommend it! However, I would say get the Illusion Kinetics version instead. Same thing, just better QC and fit generally.

PM Illusion with interest.

ILLusion · January 14th, 2010, 11:25

Chamber is lowered and the given space to allow movement between the outer barrel and inner barrel is blocked. Therefore, it doesn't move.

Pretty simple, actually. Not much other explanation is necessary. I manufacture these under the ILLusion Kinetics brand as well, with custom chamber markings at the buyer's choice. PM if interested.

juicy · January 14th, 2010, 15:26

Hold up - since the outer barrel does not contact the slide, would it be possible to forgo a metal-slide-upgrade if I installed a IK non-tilting barrel?

If you already told me this ILLusion: sorry, I just got up and my brain's still a little fuzzy.

Thenooblord · January 14th, 2010, 15:45

yes

m102404 · January 14th, 2010, 15:47

Yes...and no.

The rails and section around the rear sight of a plastic slide are very thin. They wear, crack and fail. A metal slide won't.

Normally, the outer barrel would move and interface at a couple of points at the chamber end. The ramp, the lugs and the chamber. Since the lugs at the top of the chamber have to lock into the slots in the inside of the slide...the barrel has to tilt down to unlock so the slide can recoil (this is how a real pistol works too). But in allowing that movement, when the slide rechambers it impacts the rear of the barrel to push it forward back into postion. It ain't pushing gently...it's slamming forward. As it gets close to closing, the "ramp" cams the barrel upwards so the lugs lock into the slide. Lots of wear and tear...which makes tolerances go out of whack...which puts more wear and tear on it.

By "shaving" down the lugs of the barrel...and "fixing" the outer so it doesn't move back...the tolerances can be adjusted so that the slide doesn't impact the barrel any more (it doesn't need to push it forward).

So the barrel isn't "fixed" so much as it's size (by reducing the lug size) has been reduced such that the slide just moves back and forth over it without "touching" it (it might touch it, just not enough to move it around much).

So....do you need a metal slide if you get this "fixed" barrel...no, a regular plastic slide will work.

...will a plastic slide last as long as a metal slide...no

...will a metal slide last longer with a "fixed" barrel than with an "old style" metal barrel...yes

juicy · January 14th, 2010, 16:03

Huh, that makes sense. Of course a metal slide will last longer than a plastic slide - but thanks for explaining that, Tys.

ILLusion · January 14th, 2010, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by juicy

Hold up - since the outer barrel does not contact the slide, would it be possible to forgo a metal-slide-upgrade if I installed a IK non-tilting barrel?

If you already told me this ILLusion: sorry, I just got up and my brain's still a little fuzzy.

Yup. You just don't get the awesomeness weight, blowback kick and *clink*clank* you can only get with a metal slide.

safx · January 14th, 2010, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Yup. You just don't get the awesomeness weight, blowback kick and *clink*clank* you can only get with a metal slide.

Well, if the metal on metal
awesomeness comes from
a tilting barrel then why then
would you want to lose it?

Gotcha bitch!

Before you know it, the Caps
shooters will be going NBB
cause it's easier. That's right,
I said it.

ILLusion · January 14th, 2010, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by safx

Well, if the metal on metal
awesomeness comes from
a tilting barrel then why then
would you want to lose it?

Gotcha bitch!

I didn't mention that. But you're right, tilting barrel setups have an even louder clanking noise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by safx

Before you know it, the Caps
shooters will be going NBB
cause it's easier. That's right,
I said it.

Lasergunzzzzzz!!!!

juicy · January 14th, 2010, 16:45

Hahaha a little bit of pewpew, much? Hahahahahaha that's awesome that you did say it!

safx · January 14th, 2010, 16:50

Haha, I'll let you wiggle
out of that one.

I think taking all the kick
and movement out of the
gun kills the fun of having
something simulate RS.

Just deal with the kick and
you'll be a better shooter.
Isn't that the challenge?

To me the TM's have a baby
kick compared to WA's, so
I can't really even see the
issues most of the time.

RacingManiac · January 14th, 2010, 16:51

Trigger pull on NBBs sucks ass....you can tune moving slide to be super light anyway...

For the record I don't have these type of barrel even when ordering stuff from Brian...I like my slide slamming into all sorts of stuff and making loud noise....

thepossible · January 18th, 2010, 08:09

i think i will have problems with the customs buying from extra cee.
however nobody have a photo. i think nobody bought it.

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January 14th, 2010, 07:29	#1
thepossible Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Italy	Airsoft Surgeon Super Match Does anyone have some complete photos of this product? It's really interesting but i'm not sure it works. http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=26901

January 14th, 2010, 10:22	#3
ujiro Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Burlington, ON	Ask Illusion about these. They do indeed work. Its an outer barrel, but not the tilt style. The outer barrel does not move at all. This affords infinite slide durability. Since the barrel now never contacts the slide, there is no wear between the two. While it takes away from the realism of the real steel tilting barrel, it affords greater durability (and really, who can notice if your barrel isn't tilting... nobody thats who). Would definitely recommend it! However, I would say get the Illusion Kinetics version instead. Same thing, just better QC and fit generally. PM Illusion with interest. __________________ I love freedom and consequently America

January 14th, 2010, 11:25	#4
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	Chamber is lowered and the given space to allow movement between the outer barrel and inner barrel is blocked. Therefore, it doesn't move. Pretty simple, actually. Not much other explanation is necessary. I manufacture these under the ILLusion Kinetics brand as well, with custom chamber markings at the buyer's choice. PM if interested. __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

January 14th, 2010, 15:26	#5
juicy Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, BC	Hold up - since the outer barrel does not contact the slide, would it be possible to forgo a metal-slide-upgrade if I installed a IK non-tilting barrel? If you already told me this ILLusion: sorry, I just got up and my brain's still a little fuzzy.

January 14th, 2010, 15:47	#7
m102404 Tys Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Toronto	Yes...and no. The rails and section around the rear sight of a plastic slide are very thin. They wear, crack and fail. A metal slide won't. Normally, the outer barrel would move and interface at a couple of points at the chamber end. The ramp, the lugs and the chamber. Since the lugs at the top of the chamber have to lock into the slots in the inside of the slide...the barrel has to tilt down to unlock so the slide can recoil (this is how a real pistol works too). But in allowing that movement, when the slide rechambers it impacts the rear of the barrel to push it forward back into postion. It ain't pushing gently...it's slamming forward. As it gets close to closing, the "ramp" cams the barrel upwards so the lugs lock into the slide. Lots of wear and tear...which makes tolerances go out of whack...which puts more wear and tear on it. By "shaving" down the lugs of the barrel...and "fixing" the outer so it doesn't move back...the tolerances can be adjusted so that the slide doesn't impact the barrel any more (it doesn't need to push it forward). So the barrel isn't "fixed" so much as it's size (by reducing the lug size) has been reduced such that the slide just moves back and forth over it without "touching" it (it might touch it, just not enough to move it around much). So....do you need a metal slide if you get this "fixed" barrel...no, a regular plastic slide will work. ...will a plastic slide last as long as a metal slide...no ...will a metal slide last longer with a "fixed" barrel than with an "old style" metal barrel...yes

January 14th, 2010, 16:03	#8
juicy Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, BC	Huh, that makes sense. Of course a metal slide will last longer than a plastic slide - but thanks for explaining that, Tys.

January 14th, 2010, 16:45	#12
juicy Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, BC	Hahaha a little bit of pewpew, much? Hahahahahaha that's awesome that you did say it!

January 14th, 2010, 16:50	#13
safx Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto, St. Clair West	Haha, I'll let you wiggle out of that one. I think taking all the kick and movement out of the gun kills the fun of having something simulate RS. Just deal with the kick and you'll be a better shooter. Isn't that the challenge? To me the TM's have a baby kick compared to WA's, so I can't really even see the issues most of the time. __________________ Retired — Freedom 35

January 14th, 2010, 16:51	#14
RacingManiac Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada/US	Trigger pull on NBBs sucks ass....you can tune moving slide to be super light anyway... For the record I don't have these type of barrel even when ordering stuff from Brian...I like my slide slamming into all sorts of stuff and making loud noise.... __________________ My Arnies' Album My PBase Album Custom Pistol Whore...

January 18th, 2010, 08:09	#15
thepossible Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Italy	i think i will have problems with the customs buying from extra cee. however nobody have a photo. i think nobody bought it.

Airsoft Surgeon Super Match

Airsoft Guns Discussion