Agm gbbr m4

[chronic]

Hello All,
I have been drooling over the GBB M4s ever since I first saw them. Have these guns matured enough to be gamable as stock, or do I need to to alot of work on them?

I also saw that they are HFC and not Green Gas. Where can I get HFC gas in Canada? Is it very expensive?

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by chronic

Hello All,
I have been drooling over the GBB M4s ever since I first saw them. Have these guns matured enough to be gamable as stock, or do I need to to alot of work on them?

I also saw that they are HFC and not Green Gas. Where can I get HFC gas in Canada? Is it very expensive?

If you can get one: Wait for the WETTI AWSS GBB M4. The AGM GBB M4's pale in comparison to the performance of the AWSS.

[Styrak]

The WA GBB M4 is HFC gas (you can use green gas/propane but you'll wear out parts a lot faster), every other one uses green gas/propane.

[chronic]

Originally Posted by Styrak

The WA GBB M4 is HFC gas (you can use green gas/propane but you'll wear out parts a lot faster), every other one uses green gas/propane.

If it shoots 380 with HFC, then with Green Gas its going to push you over the field limit right?

Is it a reliable gun with just HFC or should I wait for a second generation?

[FlyGuy]

Out of the box, a completely stock WA GBB M4 (if you can get one) is not overly skirmishable on anything but HFC. However, the G&P WOC M4 and/or upgrading the internal parts yourself will allow you to use propane just fine. The velocity of the gun will be determined mainly by the nozzle design and the barrel-to-bb match with a 6.01 giving you the tightest fit and therefore the highest velocity for a given puff of gas, but it may also be too tight for some brands of bbs. I use good quality ones like BB Bastard and have never really had any problems.

In my case, I happen to prefer the almost near-perfect realism of the inner workings (trigger group, bolt & bolt carrier, etc.) of the WA design but I will echo Shelled Pants' comments that the WETTI AWSS M4 (GEN 2) is a seriously sweet beast of a gun, and for a lot less cash than a tricked-out G&P/WA like the one I have. I had the chance this past weekend to compare it against mine and I'd have to say it's on par if not a little better, though the gas tube "plumbing" is highly visible inside the upper receiver when you rack the bolt carrier...a minor visual distraction on an otherwise superb piece of work.

If you're on a tight budget, then the AGM will (sort of) work for you but I would strongly recommend you save a bit more and try to obtain one of the WETTI versions, or save a lot more and go to town with an Innokatsu or WA/G&P version. It's up to you...


'Fly

[Cilantro]

I think one of the main attractions of the AGM M4 is that you could potentially build something as reliable (or more) for the same price or less than the landed price in Canada, and it comes with a metal body. Another advantage is that the WA system has a lot of upgrades going for it, as well as many different companies making mags/accessories, whereas it seems to me that it's almost exclusively WE offering replacement parts or upgrades.

That being said, I'm not exactly "in the know" when it comes to GBBRs, so I don't know who's coming out with what in terms of upgrades, etc. I will however say that if you get a WE, then you won't need to buy new mags when (and if) the cansoft WE SCAR comes out

[Sim123456]

I think there is one already broken in the classified if anyone is interested ^^

[chronic]

Originally Posted by Sim123456

I think there is one already broken in the classified if anyone is interested ^^

Well, I saw a few of them in the classifieds. I honeslty thought something was wrong with them

[Beowulfe]

The latest AATV video review discusses the AGM M4 Gas Blowback. Not surprisingly, many of the things mentioned in this thread are mirrored in the review.

YouTube - AATV Video Review: AGM M4 Gas Blowback

[m102404]

Just my $0.02 on this...having seen a bit of airsoft come and go...

1. Clone bolt actions...all the parts are there, they're the same shape, tolerances and quality suffers. You can upgrade it...but there's a lot of time and money that go into them...and it still might not work right.

2. Clone AEGs...again, all the parts are there, they're the same shape, tolerances and quality is poor. Some models work great...others suck balls. You can swap in good mechboxes, good motors, good hopups, good barrels...and end up with a good working rifle...but you're at or above the cost of buying something decent to begin with. LOTS of work

3. Clone GBB (pistols)...broken record...parts are all there...fit/finish/durability is hit and miss. No surprises that some self destruct. Again...replacement parts are available...not the most cost effective way to go about it. GBB's are finicky to begin with...hands up from people who have had mag/pistol issues...or have broken their pistols trying to "upgrade/fix" them?

4. Clone PTW...total fail. The improved Systema one is tempermental enough with the electronics...Celcius clones failed completely

So...GBBR vs. clone GBBR. Basically a re-engineered "WA pistol". Cool as ice cream in the summer...without a doubt. The WA/Inokatsu version rocks (just shy of getting wood with a hot stripper)...the WE version is very nice, but lacks some of the "wild-ness" of the other. Both make you smile.

But I wouldn't hope to get a solid setup out of a el-cheapo GBBR clone without dumping a good chunk of time (which I don't mind) and money (which I do mind) into it. That kind of "fix up" works for lower cost clones if it's the internal pieces (if better counterpart pieces are readily made and available). It does not work if it's the integral pieces (i.e. frame/structural cross pins/tolerances...and generally really fiddly stuff in the mags). Add in the potential for really bad problems from "re-engineered" parts (i.e. hopup/frame changes) and you might end up boned.

But...usually by version 2, 3 or 4 of these clones, either the manufacturer or the customer base have figured out most of the bugs.

And...with unreliable in-play shot to shot velocity...or the total limpness of a mag cooling down when you're ripping off a burst...what's the point?

Bottom line...I'm waiting...but PLEASE, PLEASE buy as many as you can to support the Microsoft-esq user testing so the products can improve or its failures figured out.

I'm all for them...just not yet.

[Sim123456]

If someone is to buy a WA and change everything on it, my bet would be to buy an AGM and change everything on it... after you'll have the same gun but 600$ more in your pocket ^^

[Cilantro]

After reading the Redwolf airsoft review concerning which parts could be interchanged between the WA & AGM M4s I'm a little discouraged to hear that such important parts like the receivers can't be switched due to size difference. This is a huge blow for me, but hopefully as Tys and the guys at AATV pointed out, it may be solved by the next generation with either proprietary parts or resizing.

I'd like to see how an AGM M4 with new hopup, NPAS and bolt would hold up to a stock WA or G&P.

[Goldman]

Link to RWA's take? I was looking and didn't see it included in the GBB shootout, etc.

As for these... Well I have one on the way for a long and detailed review/tear down. But I have high hopes. At the end of the day the only parts that need to be good are the upper and lower, from there its upgrades for everyone!

[Cilantro]

Here it is. Informative, but I wish it was more in-depth and included parts like RIS, grips, handguards, etc...

[m102404]

Hang on a sec...I never said you can't swap out all the parts...I have not done so, I have not tried it. (edit...Oh, I see Redwolf's thing now...)

My main point is/was: "You can swap out all the parts on a clone and still be left with something that is subpar compared to the original"

Think D-boys bodies. Look good right? Priced awesome compared to "good" ones (i.e. G&P, CA, KA, etc...). How many people struggled with the 1st, 2nd, maybe 3rd gen to get them to fit well with AEGs? The first gen were utter crap.

My other point is/was: "Sometimes you can swap out all the innards of a crappy/clone AEG and turn it into something useful...but if you can't (and this is pure speculation), because of tolerance differences in stuff you can't easily change, then you could end up FUBAR'd"

Here's an example:
- a guy brought me a big box of parts and said, "turn it into a shooting AEG". All the parts were there, they individually looked ok, but when assembled it was a crooked stick (the stock/body/front end/barrel zig-zagged as you looked down it). Those are parts that are just plain off-square, and I don't know how many people try to square up a barrel/receiver, but it's no easy task. They were each only out of true a little. But put a bunch of slightly different pieces together and you end up with something way, way less that nice. It still cost him way less than a decent AEG at the time...but was it worth it? Not to me (sorry buddy who shall not be named).

That's what I'm getting at.

Even if you replace all the so-so/shoddy parts (if there are any) in this clone...and if you run into issues with receiver/trigger-hammer/bolt alignment you could be banging your head against the wall. $1000 in or $300 in...it's not fun either way. Regardless if it's a $20 mount or a $2000 PTW...I just want it to work well, or at least well enough that I can fix it up with confidence...a lot of guys don't even want to fix things up regardless of price.

GBBs are fiddly...I can't imagine GBBR's as a whole being concrete-bunker-bullet-proof.