Replica vs. Authentic Gear

[pizzainthemorning]

I see one vest it's 50 bucks, I see one that LOOKS the exact same and it's say 800 bucks. Now... I'm sure the more expensive real "Black Hawk" or whatever vest IS better, but in most cases, is it in any sense worth it?

They're probably made with better stitching and better material, but sometimes the price difference is phenomenal. I have a vest I bought for 60 bucks. I load it with about 40 lbs of gear and I play regularly. I've had this vest for a few years now and not a single problem.

Pretty much what I'm getting at is that airsoft is a replica sport (even moreso for those into mil sim). Some of us load up with extra weights and gear, not because it's practical to carry around those extra few thousand bb's, but because we feel like we should carry the "proper" load. We dive, we run, we crawl, we subject our gear (our replica gear) to most of the rigors that I think authenic gear would face. And if any of you out there are like me, your gear holds up just fine at a fraction of the cost (or am I just lucky?).

Authentic gear, I don't get it. Someone fill me in.

[Moz]

When a replica vest fails, you get shot with bbs because you were stumbling around picking up your gear. When a real vest fails, you get shot to bits by big angry fucking people with guns and then you die.

That's why the real thing costs 800 bucks, because it is designed to never fail when you are out on your ass. While if a replica fails... oh well, just tape it back together and go for another round!

[Yuxi]

I see one vest it's 50 bucks, I see one that LOOKS the exact same and it's say 800 bucks.

Which specific model vest is this?

Now... I'm sure the more expensive real "Black Hawk" or whatever vest IS better, but in most cases, is it in any sense worth it?

Blackhawk isn’t even some sort of premium brand, most of their kit is pretty affordable anyhow.

They're probably made with better stitching and better material, but sometimes the price difference is phenomenal.

They ARE made from better material and quality control. The price difference is the quality difference.

I have a vest I bought for 60 bucks. I load it with about 40 lbs of gear and I play regularly. I've had this vest for a few years now and not a single problem.

What vest and brand? 40 lbs of gear? What exactly are you carrying?

Pretty much what I'm getting at is that airsoft is a replica sport (even moreso for those into mil sim). Some of us load up with extra weights and gear, not because it's practical to carry around those extra few thousand bb's, but because we feel like we should carry the "proper" load. We dive, we run, we crawl, we subject our gear (our replica gear) to most of the rigors that I think authenic gear would face.

“Practical” is a word which is so far disassociated from airsoft that when it comes up, I can do nothing but chukle.

What is truly practical in airsoft? At its root is it not just a highcap and pockets to hold other highcaps?

NO airsoft even comes close at all to subjecting their gear to military wear and tear, to say so shows an utter lack of understanding as to what real gear is subjected to.

And if any of you out there are like me, your gear holds up just fine at a fraction of the cost (or am I just lucky?).

Authentic gear, I don't get it. Someone fill me in.

The reasons people choose good gear are many, realism, quality, etc. The fact that many replicas are not really not that far off in price from their replica counter parts.

Replica gear quite often blows. Occasionally they do not, like Phantom, or some of the G and P guarder stuff, however in those cases prices are higher too, to reflect the cost of making better quality stuff.

You are writing from an perspective as if your idea of what airsoft means is what it means to all.
For some airsoft is as much about collecting as it is about gaming, for others the opposite is true.

At the bottom line, I do not recall the last thread which questioned why people choose to buy low end replica gear.

[Nik12]

Low End Gear. It gets the job done.

[Dr_Tinshnipz]

Originally Posted by Nik12

Low End Gear. It gets the job done.

+1

[Lakonian]

My BHI Isaak is 10,000x better than the replicas I've seen...

[Mantelope]

What Yuxi said. Eagle or bust.

[Ronan]

Most of my gear is athentic... why? I like to say 'yeah its the real stuff'. Thats about it... i do have my limits tho, i won't spend 800-2000 for a vest while the replica (if i dont get athentic, ill get a good replica) will do fine for 300-400.

You won't see me going around in a $80 vest, just because i dont want to waste money on something i think is just gonna break/disappoint me.

So personally, authentic gear and at worst, best replica i can get.

[damage]

For me if it is for airsoft I go for good quality replica gears. Another reason is because I play with replica guns on the weekends

[Lerch]

And then there's me and eBay getting my sweet deals

[Groombug]

In addition to the reasons stated above, authentic gear usually carries a heftier price tag because:

1. Authentic gear, or the stuff replica gear is patterned after, also has high costs because it is usually backed up with a full, no-questions asked, lifetime warranty. Eagle, Paraclete and HSGI all have top-notch customer relations. If something they made broke or failed, they take it as a failure of the company to ensure quality products and will do everything in their power to rectify the mistake.

How many replica gear makers back their shit up with warranties of any kind? If your Proud RAV falls apart, who are you going to email? Is Proud going to pay the shipping for your RAV back to Asia, and the return trip back to you, express overnight? Are they going to replace your broken RAV with a new one?


2. Authentic gear is also usually the product of extensive R&D and field testing by authentic BTDT shoot-n-scooters. The Paraclete RAV and Eagle CIRAS, to name a few, didn't just materialize out of some cordura lover's head out of nowhere. There was feedback from the community, demanding an armour-LBV combination that could be doffed quickly in emergencies, and also utilized this new shit called MOLLE. Paraclete and Eagle said "Yeah, we can build one" and set about consulting and developing these products. They're STILL R&Ding and testing. If you look at RAV 2002 and RAV 2005, there's a huge difference. Improvements and input from the community for community needs. Part of the bigger price tag is because companies need to recoup those R&D costs, just as any other business would after pouring that kind of money into it.

What R&D did Phantom do for its CIRAS? It was one guy scouring ebay for a cheap REAL CIRAS, having it shipped to Asia, where a bunch of guys fondled and took it apart, reverse-engineered it, and then promptly made their own. Ever wonder why Chinese antibiotics look remarkably similar to Pfizer's, but is exponentially cheaper? Skipping R&D is a great way to cut costs. Why develop your own shit when you can copy someone else's, and you know there is a definite demand for that product?


3. Authentic gear companies' biggest customers are not civilians. It is the military, and the military demands best bang for buck. While we're buying CIRAS for $400, the US military is procuring them at $150 (loose example). On top of the rig itself, Eagle also has to supply a billion pouches in various denominations (to kit out, for example, the Eagle gonzo deployment package). Did I also mention they have to deliver on time, sometimes thousands of items in a few weeks' notice? Mass-produced as it is, Eagle (or any authentic gear maker) is not like Ford, with production plants everywhere. Most companies have one plant, and they make every product in their inventory on one shop floor. Some orders are easy to handle, for example, to kit out one particular NSW group. Others, like the Spartan II, is now standard issue for the entire USMC. That's a lotta cordura, and a lotta machine time. Civilians are not discouraged, but they do pay a higher premium for these products, because the companies must ensure they can deliver to Uncle Sam on time and on budget.

What other group does replica gear cater to, except for avid airsofters and maybe cheap-ass collectors? They don't have any deadlines, they have no repercussions if they don't deliver x quatity in z time. They may mass-produce their products, but like above, there's no start-up R&D costs. In the end, this fully-commercialized model means costs can cut everywhere, and the end consumer (us) gets the bargain. If I was a soldier waiting to deploy in a month, I would want my kit ASAP, not whenever stock becomes available. If I was an airsofter planning for a summer of fun, I can probably afford to wait a little, and there is no consequence in it being late.


4. Authentic gear makers also, differing from company to company, do custom orders for non-inventory stuff. There are a number of 'niche' demands in terms of specific gear oriented for one or two specific tasks that call for something other than what is commercially available. LBT and SOE are two particular companies that have a ton of custom stuff that sometimes never make it to market. If you think 1961A was hot stuff, there's more where that came from. These custom orders (often as little as 10 items, or 1, if you're in the 'in' crowd) have to go through an expedited R&D, prototype, and final design in a matter of weeks, and there is unlikely to be any further production of the item after the group that demanded it has gotten their stock. It costs a lot. You've got to recoup costs somewhere, and it ain't going to be charging the military more money.

When was the last time replica gear companies made custom anything? From what I remember, I think it was a magazine pouch that was an ugly gangbang between two existing pouch designs, and even then it was pulled off with classic copycat style - performs like shit since no forethought was put into whether the design would actually work. If you don't have to set aside a part of your production line and stock materials for the possibility of custom orders, suddenly you're a hell of a lot more streamlined. Sounds like cost-cutting to me.


In the end, the reason why authentic gear is more expensive is because it is oriented to a different market and have a number factors that drive up costs for civilians. Replica gear is made specifically for airsofters and are not tied down or held back by other priorities.

[surebet]

... wow.

Thoroughly insightfully!

Originally Posted by Groombug

4. Authentic gear makers also, differing from company to company, do custom orders for non-inventory stuff. There are a number of 'niche' demands in terms of specific gear oriented for one or two specific tasks that call for something other than what is commercially available. LBT and SOE are two particular companies that have a ton of custom stuff that sometimes never make it to market. If you think 1961A was hot stuff, there's more where that came from. These custom orders (often as little as 10 items, or 1, if you're in the 'in' crowd) have to go through an expedited R&D, prototype, and final design in a matter of weeks, and there is unlikely to be any further production of the item after the group that demanded it has gotten their stock. It costs a lot. You've got to recoup costs somewhere, and it ain't going to be charging the military more money.

When was the last time replica gear companies made custom anything? From what I remember, I think it was a magazine pouch that was an ugly gangbang between two existing pouch designs, and even then it was pulled off with classic copycat style - performs like shit since no forethought was put into whether the design would actually work. If you don't have to set aside a part of your production line and stock materials for the possibility of custom orders, suddenly you're a hell of a lot more streamlined. Sounds like cost-cutting to me.


In the end, the reason why authentic gear is more expensive is because it is oriented to a different market and have a number factors that drive up costs for civilians. Replica gear is made specifically for airsofters and are not tied down or held back by other priorities.

As far as custom work goes, this is the nail on the head right here. Everything built custom is built at least three times. Once on paper (or on computer for that matter), once with rough materials, and then a third time with final materials and QA. Often, you don't get to stage 3 and have to go back to step 1 and re-design when you find the original design unworkable.

When you slap this shit together, you have to do it in a specific order. You don't always know what that order us until you start working on it.

This is true for customizing existing gear as well as custom gear. Someone once asked me to install PALS webbing on the back of 3-day backpack. Ok, the work is $75/hr and will take, likely, 5 hours to complete. Why so long? Well, because I have to take most of the main bag apart just to get at the outside panel where the PALS is supposed to be attached. The machines work on flat tables...you can't work inside a bag or you sew the whole thing together.

When you buy a piece of custom kit or equipment from a higher-end manufacturer, ALL THAT WORK is factored into the price.

You should SEE my basement...there's a whole bin full of "it seemed like a good idea at the time" kit that never got finished because the design didn't work out through the production process.

[Farmboy]

Some of us load up with extra weights and gear, not because it's practical to carry around those extra few thousand bb's, but because we feel like we should carry the "proper" load. We dive, we run, we crawl, we subject our gear (our replica gear) to most of the rigors that I think authenic gear would face

Not to get to worked up about this but:

1) Has your replica gear every survived an IED blast? We have had TAG rigs come through withought much damage.

2) Ever get your replica gear hung up on a LAV/ G Wagon/ Bison/ Hummer or Leopard and have it not rip?

3) As stated above, has your replica Mfg every replaced or fixed a broken part for free? I have had two issues in the last two years like this, that's right 2 years and only 2 issues.

a) A TAG frag pouch that got "run over" by a LAV and the buckle broke. Myself and TAG replaced the entire pouch.

b) An HSGI Warlord nalgene pouch that blew a seam after being loaded up "big time". The vest was UPS'd to HSGI, fixed and UPS'd back within a week all cover by HSGI. HSGI now re-enforces this section.

[Zeonprime]

Low end for people who are not sure they want to invest in the sport.

But once you want to invest. get the good shit. simple...
We are not operators (well except for the odd operator that does this for fun) but it's never a mistake paying for a quality product, plus if you decide to get rid of that item your resale value is practically guarenteed.

and as for Custom shite.. Morb is the King!
His Shotty holster was grabbed by a 6'5" zombie at a run while I was moving and was used to pull me down. Not a single stitch moved or stretched