Support or not?

[Bullpup Dog]

anyone have experience as support? i play mostly outdoor but some indoor when i have money and im wondering if it would be worth it to buy a support version of the STAR L85 A2 (called the L86) or just go with the standard A2 model. both cost same but looking for pro/cons to support both in and outdoors. Thanks

[attack-beaver]

if you want to go support i think getting the L86 would be fine. long barrel so got some range thats about all i know.

[LUTNIT]

You play indoor when you have money? Doesn't the outdoor field have a similar field fee?

The L85 A2 LSW has far too long of a barrel and thus is far too accurate for a support weapons. You want a nice cone of fire to spray an area to keep peoples heads down while your teammates move about and take out the suppressed targets. The LSW is more like a sniper rifle, the regular A2 version has a 510mm barrel and the LSW is even longer and its a 6.05mm tightbore.

Many fields will only allow true support weapons as support weapons so if you get an L85A2 normal you will have to follow the rules for a normal gun and not a support weapon (less ammo, etc.) The LSW is much longer, a bit unwieldy in CQB, but has great accuracy over distances for outdoor games (ideal for a rifle, not for a support gun.) It weighs a lot so if you aren't a bigger or quite strong guy it can be a pain lugging it around all day (all support guns are heavy.) CQB support, get an M249 para or an M60 shorty, field support get an M249, RPK, M60, etc.

[Denis[teamplayer]]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

You play indoor when you have money? Doesn't the outdoor field have a similar field fee?

I think it means he plays on a private field, and goes to actual fields when he's got cash

[thephenom]

Why play support and be a BB hose when you don't have money.

[LUTNIT]

I've seen some guys burn through $125 in BB's alone in a single day with an M249 *cough* Apocalypse *cough* ($125 retail, he buys in bulk, probably only cost him $80, but still....)

If you don't hose, you can't really give really good support fire, so your not really filling your role. Support costs, I just spent $300 to get 55 000 BB's in bulk and that will maybe last me a season, maybe not.

[Bullpup Dog]

i play on a friends property with other friends who are into airsoft and the indoor i go to in calgary isnt nearly as strict with all the ammo rules and whatnot. i dont know if its calgary or what, but alot of these limits that everybody talks about (aside from fps limit obviously), ive never heard of. anyways my thought was that for the same price i would get a more accurate, heavier gun...so maybe ill just stick with the L85 norm. now i just gotta save up for the hefty 975 price tag.

[mateba]

Lutnit,
What a minute, I'm not sure I understand. You would discount a SAW if it is too accurate regardless if an aeg is capable of carrying mass ammo and perform extended bursts of fire at a higher rate of fire? You could also throw in, weight and appearance as factors as well. But, if its accurate it is not a SAW? please explain

Bullpup Dog,
I would not want to negotiate indoor play with a gun that big. Its possible but you probably wont need the SAW in a CQB. With that said not many people would consider the L85a2 by any stretch of the imagination to be a SAW so a conversion between games would probably be a waste. These roles are hard to put together, especially when a field requires that you basically buy a SAW. My opinion would be to buy the L86 and buy a used stock gun from a reliable source for CQB. I agree 100% with the cost warnings. There is not such thing as a budget SAW.

Originally Posted by Bullpup Dog

i play on a friends property with other friends who are into airsoft and the indoor i go to in calgary isnt nearly as strict with all the ammo rules and whatnot. i dont know if its calgary or what, but alot of these limits that everybody talks about (aside from fps limit obviously), ive never heard of. anyways my thought was that for the same price i would get a more accurate, heavier gun...so maybe ill just stick with the L85 norm. now i just gotta save up for the hefty 975 price tag.

[thephenom]

Originally Posted by mateba

Lutnit,
What a minute, I'm not sure I understand. You would discount a SAW if it is too accurate regardless if an aeg is capable of carrying mass ammo and perform extended bursts of fire at a higher rate of fire? You could also throw in, weight and appearance as factors as well. But, if its accurate it is not a SAW? please explain

A SAW is not a sniper platform, it's not MEANT to be accurate, it's meant to provide support fire covering as much area as you can to cover your team to move up by pinning down the opposition.

[DuffMan]

That said, I don't anyone would complain if the C9 was suddenly shooting sub-MOA groupings. Just because it's accurate doesn't mean you can't use it for surpressive fire.

[mateba]

great accuracy might make a poor SAW but is accuracy enough to discount the rest of its characteristics? An accurate SAW is very different from a sniper rifle. How could accuracy be anymore than a undesirable trait?

Originally Posted by thephenom

A SAW is not a sniper platform, it's not MEANT to be accurate, it's meant to provide support fire covering as much area as you can to cover your team to move up by pinning down the opposition.

[LUTNIT]

You can play support with any gun, but ideally you want a good cone of fire otherwise you need to actually move the gun around to suppress more than a tiny spot. The L85A2 LSW could be used as a support platform yes, but its qualities seem to give it to more of a designated marksman role.

[gallantcorey]

Well lets be realistic here. The LSW is exactly that, a light support weapon. However I dont find that it is that good at that role. What is the main features of an LMG? High rates of fire with large ammo capacities. Well an LSW might have a high rate of fire... but a standard mag will not be any good for support. Support is there to keep the enemys heads down so your team can move up. Its no good if your reloading ever 10 seconds.

[mateba]

I understand you point Lutnit

gallantcorey, The L86 can be fitted with proper magazines, i do believe they take M16/M15/M4 mags.

I think the point is that there are better SAWs on the market. I think there would be a similar reaction to a AUG HBAR and although I think both of these guns are dead sexy their designs get in the way when it comes to using a box mag.

Originally Posted by gallantcorey

Well lets be realistic here. The LSW is exactly that, a light support weapon. However I dont find that it is that good at that role. What is the main features of an LMG? High rates of fire with large ammo capacities. Well an LSW might have a high rate of fire... but a standard mag will not be any good for support. Support is there to keep the enemys heads down so your team can move up. Its no good if your reloading ever 10 seconds.

[Gryphon]

A note on using support weapons in CQB.

I've done it. For several months my M249 was my only gun besides my Glock with one mag. Taking a SAW into an indoor arena intimidates a lot of people who don't know better. I'd usually assuage their concerns by illustrating that it was very large, very heavy, and the facility would only let me use lowcaps, so I was at no advantage to anyone using an M4. If anything the sheer bulk of the weapon was a disadvantage.

Once I'd developed a technique though I found I could manage it easily enough. When I got to a corner that demanded a lower profile the M249 would drop to my waist and I'd immediately transition to the Glock. The corner would be cleared and I'd reholster my sidearm and transition back to the M249. I have it almost down to an art form.

One thing I found is when you're loaded with gear and carrying a big heavy gun, you will sweat. A lot.