What will happen to the gears without a shim...

DYORD · January 24th, 2007, 20:24

I'm still thinking what can i do to put shims on all sides.. it's quite not possible for now.

Kid · January 24th, 2007, 20:27

Are you looking for alternatives to shims? What is your question?

I'm just a bit confused. Sorry.

Greylocks · January 24th, 2007, 20:51

Describe the gun, the exact model, the exact upgrades. Then there will be enough information to provide a better answer?

CDN_Stalker · January 24th, 2007, 21:26

Who cares what gun, shims provide tighter tolerances between <type/model> gears and <type/model> mechbox.

Having one or more gear (s) too loose creates play between the mechbox and the gear itself, which can cause either out of alignment issues or cause uneven wear (contact surfaces) similar to having your alignment out of whack on a car, one side of each tire wears a lot faster than the other side).

Having one or more gear(s) too tight causes reduced rate of fire, decreased battery usage (lower number of shots per battery), heat, premature wear on gears and mechbox (and bushings if you think you can go cheap and just use the stock bushings).

Nutshell to your approach, regardless of mechbox/gun type is extremely fast wear on your gun. One cna't even trust fully the shimming diagrams supplied with full tune up kits, if it was designed for a stock TM mechbox, and you happen to have a Hurricane reinforced mechbox, yo umight run into one or either problems outlined above. Trust me, been there done that (hell, a Guarder FTK I installed in a Hurricane mechbox caused the piston to jam full rear after a couple hundred shots, the tolerance of the piston's side grooves was too tight, made it sieze on the mechbox side rails.)

Shimming is 100% feel unless you follow to a 'T' the guidelines for the shim job (supplied info and exact parts they based the shimming guide on, gears, mechbox, etc.) Thinnest shims are what, 0.20mm thick (been a while since I saw the thicknesses used)? That much too much can jam a mechbox, too little is better but can still cause uneven wear.

Trader rating · January 24th, 2007, 22:22

or makes your gears into swiss cheese

tunabreath · January 24th, 2007, 22:31

What I think he's trying to say (and I may be waaay off) is that he cannot fit shims on both sides of a particular gear for some reason, presumably because it causes that gear to bind up or prevents him from closing the mechbox (too thick of a shim job).
So essentially, is there a problem with allowing a gear to contact a bushing directly, as long as it's a good fit (doesn't bind up with the mechbox or other gears)?

Greylocks · January 25th, 2007, 06:57

I dont know what his question means, that is why I asked for specifics.

His spring's power may play a role too.

Let's hope he decides that we should not guess for too long.

DYORD · January 25th, 2007, 11:14

Ok, here's the list of my upgrades..

SP160 spring
Guarder Infinite Torque Up Gears
Deepfire titanium half tooth piston body
Stock TM piston head
Spring guide w/ bearing
EG700
9.6v 2400mah Sanyo NiCad
Ver3 (stock TM Aug) gearbox

I thought you'll never get my question.. That's it.. my question is.. is ok to put the gears directly on the bushings without a shim/washer before it. Because right now.. here's my shimming setting..

Spur gear - no shim at the bottom / .3mm on top
Sector gear - 5mm at the bottom / no shim on top
Bevel gear - .4mm at the bottom / no shim on top

do you get what I mean???

Brakoo · January 25th, 2007, 11:17

Not sure about a V3 but i know that on a V2 having all shims on top is the way to go.

DYORD · January 25th, 2007, 11:18

if shimming is required on all sides.. there are no other possible solution to do my upgrade.

CDN_Stalker · January 25th, 2007, 12:41

Shims aren't required between the gear and the bushing. I understand now what you are saying. The shim isn't a bearing or anything, it's just a spacer to align the gears properly in the mechbox and in relation to each other. If you don't need a shim on one gear, don't put one.

Jimski · January 25th, 2007, 12:48

are your shims really thick or do you have several sizes to choose from?

DYORD · January 25th, 2007, 13:18

i have .1mm, .2 .3 .5

Greylocks · January 25th, 2007, 19:22

SP160? Is that not well over 400fps? Where do you play?

If you are not in Canada, forget that I asked. If you are, please complete your profile with your location? Then if you need further help someone local will be able to assist you?

DYORD · January 25th, 2007, 21:14

well.. here in the Philippines.. they do over 600 fps..

so the conclusion is... it is ok to put the gears directly on the bushings?

Home	Forums	Register	Gallery	FAQ	Calendar
Retailers	Community	News/Info	International Retailers	IRC	Today's Posts

British Columbia	Alberta
BCAC	EAR
Op-For	JOC
Northern Arms Airsoft	Skunkworx Airsoft
Airsoft Kelowna	RAAT
Prince George Airsoft	Manitoba
Saskatchewan	MAA
SK Airsoft	Ontario
PDW	Airsoft Ottawa
South Sask Mercs	Snow Dragons
Quebec	1st Ranger Platoon
PQAC	Wolfpack Tactical
1st Pathfinders Regiment	TTAC3
Quebec Airsoft
MTX Airsoft	Atlantic
FAQc	Atlantic Airsoft

January 24th, 2007, 20:24	#1
DYORD Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Philippines	What will happen to the gears without a shim... I'm still thinking what can i do to put shims on all sides.. it's quite not possible for now.

January 24th, 2007, 21:26	#4
CDN_Stalker Official ASC Bladesmith Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ont.	Who cares what gun, shims provide tighter tolerances between <type/model> gears and <type/model> mechbox. Having one or more gear (s) too loose creates play between the mechbox and the gear itself, which can cause either out of alignment issues or cause uneven wear (contact surfaces) similar to having your alignment out of whack on a car, one side of each tire wears a lot faster than the other side). Having one or more gear(s) too tight causes reduced rate of fire, decreased battery usage (lower number of shots per battery), heat, premature wear on gears and mechbox (and bushings if you think you can go cheap and just use the stock bushings). Nutshell to your approach, regardless of mechbox/gun type is extremely fast wear on your gun. One cna't even trust fully the shimming diagrams supplied with full tune up kits, if it was designed for a stock TM mechbox, and you happen to have a Hurricane reinforced mechbox, yo umight run into one or either problems outlined above. Trust me, been there done that (hell, a Guarder FTK I installed in a Hurricane mechbox caused the piston to jam full rear after a couple hundred shots, the tolerance of the piston's side grooves was too tight, made it sieze on the mechbox side rails.) Shimming is 100% feel unless you follow to a 'T' the guidelines for the shim job (supplied info and exact parts they based the shimming guide on, gears, mechbox, etc.) Thinnest shims are what, 0.20mm thick (been a while since I saw the thicknesses used)? That much too much can jam a mechbox, too little is better but can still cause uneven wear. __________________ STKR Knives http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/STK...17036668380871

January 24th, 2007, 22:31	#6
tunabreath Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Edmonton, AB	What I think he's trying to say (and I may be waaay off) is that he cannot fit shims on both sides of a particular gear for some reason, presumably because it causes that gear to bind up or prevents him from closing the mechbox (too thick of a shim job). So essentially, is there a problem with allowing a gear to contact a bushing directly, as long as it's a good fit (doesn't bind up with the mechbox or other gears)? __________________ Vita, Passione e Pistole

January 24th, 2007, 20:27	#2
Kid Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Moose Jaw, SK	Are you looking for alternatives to shims? What is your question? I'm just a bit confused. Sorry.

January 24th, 2007, 20:51	#3
Greylocks Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gatineau, Quebec (Near Ottawa)	Describe the gun, the exact model, the exact upgrades. Then there will be enough information to provide a better answer?

January 24th, 2007, 22:22	#5
Droc Guest Trader rating	or makes your gears into swiss cheese

January 25th, 2007, 06:57	#7
Greylocks Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gatineau, Quebec (Near Ottawa)	I dont know what his question means, that is why I asked for specifics. His spring's power may play a role too. Let's hope he decides that we should not guess for too long.

January 25th, 2007, 11:14	#8
DYORD Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Philippines	Ok, here's the list of my upgrades.. SP160 spring Guarder Infinite Torque Up Gears Deepfire titanium half tooth piston body Stock TM piston head Spring guide w/ bearing EG700 9.6v 2400mah Sanyo NiCad Ver3 (stock TM Aug) gearbox I thought you'll never get my question.. That's it.. my question is.. is ok to put the gears directly on the bushings without a shim/washer before it. Because right now.. here's my shimming setting.. Spur gear - no shim at the bottom / .3mm on top Sector gear - 5mm at the bottom / no shim on top Bevel gear - .4mm at the bottom / no shim on top do you get what I mean???

January 25th, 2007, 11:17	#9
Brakoo Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Laval, Quebec	Not sure about a V3 but i know that on a V2 having all shims on top is the way to go. __________________

January 25th, 2007, 11:18	#10
DYORD Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Philippines	if shimming is required on all sides.. there are no other possible solution to do my upgrade.

January 25th, 2007, 12:41	#11
CDN_Stalker Official ASC Bladesmith Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ont.	Shims aren't required between the gear and the bushing. I understand now what you are saying. The shim isn't a bearing or anything, it's just a spacer to align the gears properly in the mechbox and in relation to each other. If you don't need a shim on one gear, don't put one. __________________ STKR Knives http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/STK...17036668380871

January 25th, 2007, 12:48	#12
Jimski Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Montreal	are your shims really thick or do you have several sizes to choose from?

January 25th, 2007, 13:18	#13
DYORD Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Philippines	i have .1mm, .2 .3 .5

January 25th, 2007, 19:22	#14
Greylocks Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gatineau, Quebec (Near Ottawa)	SP160? Is that not well over 400fps? Where do you play? If you are not in Canada, forget that I asked. If you are, please complete your profile with your location? Then if you need further help someone local will be able to assist you?

January 25th, 2007, 21:14	#15
DYORD Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Philippines	well.. here in the Philippines.. they do over 600 fps.. so the conclusion is... it is ok to put the gears directly on the bushings?

What will happen to the gears without a shim...

Doctor's Corner