Problem with motor power

lizbob · December 15th, 2006, 18:06

Sometimes, the motor on my ICS MP5 A4 slow down and stop running ((turbo 3000), the gun is dead, no noise. I extracted the motor from the pistol grip and still keeping him connecting on the electrical wire. I turn the switch on (semi-auto), and sometimes the motor works and sometimes it didn't. When I replace the motor in the pistol grip and try to use it, the motor work good for maybe 40 shot and after that the motor slow down and finally stop.

Is anybody have the same problem ? What will be your suggestions ? What should I check ?

When I put back in place the motor, what should be the position of the small allen's screw right in the middle of the pistol grip (fine tuning motor screw). Do you think I have a connection problem, a motor problem, a gear problem or something else.

My battery is full charge, the fuse is ok

LUTNIT · December 15th, 2006, 18:10

There where some problems with ICS Turbo motors dying before, I don't remember if it was the turbo3000's or not.

HaZarD SFD · December 15th, 2006, 19:34

If your motor isnt working on semi or auto when its removed from the grip then you either have a bad motor or wiring.

Kampfer · December 15th, 2006, 20:14

ICS motors are sometimes full of problems.
When you take your ICS motor out can you spin the pinion gear with your finger? or do you feel it grinding inside?
Does your motor heat up a lot?
Getting 40 shots then slow to a stop could also mean a battery problem do you have another gun to test your battery with?
connect your battery and wire to the motor with out puting it in the grip to see if the motor is working properly. (make sure you hold on to the motor tight or it's jump around.)

lizbob · December 15th, 2006, 23:33

The battery I used with the ICS MP5 A4 was an Intellec 8,4V large battery 3600Mh. I tryed this battery with my TM AK-47 and the gun turn dead also...

What do you think ? I used both battery in both gun a couple of days ago and everything was OK...

I think the problem is from my intellec large battery 8,4 V 3600Mh. Is sombody have an idea about what's happening ? I don't have an electric tester, but the fuse look good... Anyway, I'm going to change them anyway. Is the 30A 250V fuse good with the ICS MP5 A4 and the TM AK-47 ?

LUTNIT · December 15th, 2006, 23:36

A dead TM in the same manner.....sounds fishy. I'd definitely get that battery to someone that has a voltmeter and knows a thing or two about batteries and don't put it anywhere near a gun until then.

The Saint · December 16th, 2006, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbob

Is the 30A 250V fuse good with the ICS MP5 A4 and the TM AK-47 ?

Airsoft usually use 15-25A fuses. The higher the Amp rating, the greater the chance that the fuse won't blown to protect the motor against a surge. You can use a 30A if that's all you got, it just provides less protection.

Kampfer · December 16th, 2006, 07:09

a surge usually won't kill your motor.
Holding down the trigger when the motor is not turning will. That's why you'll see the fuse change colour and then melt instead of the coils in your motor. Canadian Tire sells 15,20,25A fuses.

Either your battery connections are no good or just crappy cells.
Since you are getting some 40 shots off before stopping, I am betting it's the charger. Borrow someone else's charger and try it out.
Some chargers can only charge NiCad or a switch for charging NiMh look around.
Dose your battery heat up after a short period or warm up at all after a few hours of charging?

lizbob · December 16th, 2006, 10:35

No the battery does not heat up when charging or after the request period of charging. After reading the post I will buy a 20A fuse and try two different battery I have.

I think the problem came from the battery... The same battery blow up two different gun ??

The charger I use is a class 2 transformer input 120V 600 Hz, output 9V DC 500 mA. So it took 7 hours to charge a 3600 Mh. The other battery (the good one) is a 1800 Mh so it take 3 hours to charge. I'm I right ?

lizbob · December 16th, 2006, 13:09

I'm quite sure I have 2 problems. First the cells Intellec 8,4V large type 3600 blow my fuse and with my other cell 8.4 V NP 1800 it's ok (TM AK-47). Probably a scrappy cells...

Now when a put a new fuse in the ICS MP5 and use my cell 8.4V NP 1800 (wich work with the other gun), the motor of the ICS does'nt work. For just one time I was playing with the wires, the motor have a small turn. So I think the second problem is the wiring between the motor and the mechbox. How can I be sure is the wire ? Do you suggest to cut them, skin them and put them on the motor connectors ?

Can I replace the wires from the motor to the mechbox ?? Where can I buy these item ?

Kos-Mos · December 16th, 2006, 14:00

1- Get a multimeter. You won't be able to diagnostic an eletrical problem unless you have one, or a second perfectly working gun.

2- Get a GOOD charger damnit! Look for a Piranha Digital Peak charger, or Intellect Intellipeak digital. It's about 100$ and it will save your battery. Plus you will know how much amps have fitted in your pack! You Large Intellect pack is designed to be charged at 5000mAh, not 500! Also, the about time to charge is not good unless you discharge your pack everytime before charging. Again your pack should be discharged at a rate around 25-30A. Lower rate will overdischarge a lot your pack and it will die. You won't be able to recharge it, and it will never perform good again.

Check if your pack get's hot when you try to charge it. If it's hot almost instantly, and it still can't shoot more than 40 bbs, then it's dead. If it gets hot about 4 hours after start, then it means it is full and already have been overcharged (a pack generate heat when it get's overcharged, and at 500mAh, it is long after the pack is full that it generates heat.)

lizbob · December 16th, 2006, 14:33

Yes I agree with you, the charger could be more adapted for the need. No the battery did'nt came hot when I charged them : both 1800 and the 3600 Mh and yes I discharged them completely before the charging procedure.

I'm going to follow your advise and buy a good charger.

Anyway, I have a battery that is working on my TM AK-47 and won't work when I put it on the ICS MP5 A4 ? I have already change the fuse and the motor is connect on the battery (outside the pistol grip) but no running...

Any advise or thing to check ?

MadMax · December 16th, 2006, 14:41

Unfortunately you can't determine charge time with the current ratings on a brick transformer. The mA rating on them does not indicate the current that they will drive. It indicates the maximum current the brick is designed to deliver. Brick chargers are constant voltage devices not constant current. This means that the current flow through your battery will change througout it's charge cycle as it goes from a low charge to a higher charge condition. Because of this it's difficult to determine when a pack is properly charged with brick transformers.

Also, I think NiCds require around 1.5-1.6V to be applied across their terminals to acheive full charge. This means your 7 cell pack would need a supply capable of delivering 10.5V to reach full charge. Your 9V transformer is probably not able to fully charge your batteries because of this.

Incedentally the requirement for a higher voltage supply means that it's not difficult to significantly overcharge a pack if you forget about it because the appropriate voltage supply can keep forcing current even when your pack is fully charged. If you're stuck with a low cost brick charger, invest in a light timer. Charge your battery and observe it carefully. Touch the pack to see when it's temperature starts to rise significantly (this indicates full charge) every 15min. When you note a strong increase in temperature, stop the charge and record how long it took to fully charge (starting from full discharge) so you can set your light timer to automatically cut off for future charges. Unfortunately this does not work for partially charged packs as they will reach full charge sooner.

Unfortunately the savings in not buying a peak detecting charger are often badly offset by the cost of fried batteries.

MadMax · December 16th, 2006, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbob

Yes I agree with you, the charger could be more adapted for the need. No the battery did'nt came hot when I charged them : both 1800 and the 3600 Mh and yes I discharged them completely before the charging procedure.

I'm going to follow your advise and buy a good charger.

Anyway, I have a battery that is working on my TM AK-47 and won't work when I put it on the ICS MP5 A4 ? I have already change the fuse and the motor is connect on the battery (outside the pistol grip) but no running...

Any advise or thing to check ?

If you have alligator clips or other appropriate connectors, make a direct connection to your motor without any switchgear. If it runs better than thru the switchgear, then you have an electrical issue in the switchgear or wiring. Check the contacts between every connection and check the graphite block in the switch assembly for excessive scorching.

If your motor is still hinky with a direct connection, then kill a chicken on a full moon and wash half of the pinion gear in the liquid from the gall bladder. Place one drop of blood on the motor can and throw it away and replace the motor. Preferably with a TM one. I do this for all of my burnt out motors and find that only TM gets motor voodoo right. I have replaced maybe half a dozen other make motors (Eagle, SystemA, ICS) but never a TM one.

lizbob · December 16th, 2006, 15:04

Thank you Madmax, you put a good light on that, and yes I wll buy a good charger. Good idea I will make a direct connection on the motor with a bypass on the switch gear to see if the problem is there. If not. I'm going to check every connections.

One other question, how and where do you make a direct connection with alligators clip ? Sorry but electricity is not my favorite hobby.

Thank again.

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December 15th, 2006, 18:06	#1
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	Problem with motor power Sometimes, the motor on my ICS MP5 A4 slow down and stop running ((turbo 3000), the gun is dead, no noise. I extracted the motor from the pistol grip and still keeping him connecting on the electrical wire. I turn the switch on (semi-auto), and sometimes the motor works and sometimes it didn't. When I replace the motor in the pistol grip and try to use it, the motor work good for maybe 40 shot and after that the motor slow down and finally stop. Is anybody have the same problem ? What will be your suggestions ? What should I check ? When I put back in place the motor, what should be the position of the small allen's screw right in the middle of the pistol grip (fine tuning motor screw). Do you think I have a connection problem, a motor problem, a gear problem or something else. My battery is full charge, the fuse is ok

December 15th, 2006, 19:34	#3
HaZarD SFD Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ottawa	If your motor isnt working on semi or auto when its removed from the grip then you either have a bad motor or wiring. __________________ No Comment.

December 15th, 2006, 20:14	#4
Kampfer Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver	ICS motors are sometimes full of problems. When you take your ICS motor out can you spin the pinion gear with your finger? or do you feel it grinding inside? Does your motor heat up a lot? Getting 40 shots then slow to a stop could also mean a battery problem do you have another gun to test your battery with? connect your battery and wire to the motor with out puting it in the grip to see if the motor is working properly. (make sure you hold on to the motor tight or it's jump around.) __________________ Op-for & BCAC clubs in and around Vancouver, BC www.MILSIG.ca Airsoft Source www.DSTactical.com Tactical Gears www.AirsoftGear.ca Parts, Accessories and Gaming Experience Last edited by Kampfer; December 15th, 2006 at 20:17..

December 15th, 2006, 18:10	#2
LUTNIT Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ottawa	There where some problems with ICS Turbo motors dying before, I don't remember if it was the turbo3000's or not.

December 15th, 2006, 23:33	#5
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	The battery I used with the ICS MP5 A4 was an Intellec 8,4V large battery 3600Mh. I tryed this battery with my TM AK-47 and the gun turn dead also... What do you think ? I used both battery in both gun a couple of days ago and everything was OK... I think the problem is from my intellec large battery 8,4 V 3600Mh. Is sombody have an idea about what's happening ? I don't have an electric tester, but the fuse look good... Anyway, I'm going to change them anyway. Is the 30A 250V fuse good with the ICS MP5 A4 and the TM AK-47 ?

December 15th, 2006, 23:36	#6
LUTNIT Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ottawa	A dead TM in the same manner.....sounds fishy. I'd definitely get that battery to someone that has a voltmeter and knows a thing or two about batteries and don't put it anywhere near a gun until then.

December 16th, 2006, 07:09	#8
Kampfer Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver	a surge usually won't kill your motor. Holding down the trigger when the motor is not turning will. That's why you'll see the fuse change colour and then melt instead of the coils in your motor. Canadian Tire sells 15,20,25A fuses. Either your battery connections are no good or just crappy cells. Since you are getting some 40 shots off before stopping, I am betting it's the charger. Borrow someone else's charger and try it out. Some chargers can only charge NiCad or a switch for charging NiMh look around. Dose your battery heat up after a short period or warm up at all after a few hours of charging? __________________ Op-for & BCAC clubs in and around Vancouver, BC www.MILSIG.ca Airsoft Source www.DSTactical.com Tactical Gears www.AirsoftGear.ca Parts, Accessories and Gaming Experience Last edited by Kampfer; December 16th, 2006 at 07:40..

December 16th, 2006, 10:35	#9
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	No the battery does not heat up when charging or after the request period of charging. After reading the post I will buy a 20A fuse and try two different battery I have. I think the problem came from the battery... The same battery blow up two different gun ?? The charger I use is a class 2 transformer input 120V 600 Hz, output 9V DC 500 mA. So it took 7 hours to charge a 3600 Mh. The other battery (the good one) is a 1800 Mh so it take 3 hours to charge. I'm I right ?

December 16th, 2006, 13:09	#10
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	I'm quite sure I have 2 problems. First the cells Intellec 8,4V large type 3600 blow my fuse and with my other cell 8.4 V NP 1800 it's ok (TM AK-47). Probably a scrappy cells... Now when a put a new fuse in the ICS MP5 and use my cell 8.4V NP 1800 (wich work with the other gun), the motor of the ICS does'nt work. For just one time I was playing with the wires, the motor have a small turn. So I think the second problem is the wiring between the motor and the mechbox. How can I be sure is the wire ? Do you suggest to cut them, skin them and put them on the motor connectors ? Can I replace the wires from the motor to the mechbox ?? Where can I buy these item ?

December 16th, 2006, 14:00	#11
Kos-Mos Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lévis (QC)	1- Get a multimeter. You won't be able to diagnostic an eletrical problem unless you have one, or a second perfectly working gun. 2- Get a GOOD charger damnit! Look for a Piranha Digital Peak charger, or Intellect Intellipeak digital. It's about 100$ and it will save your battery. Plus you will know how much amps have fitted in your pack! You Large Intellect pack is designed to be charged at 5000mAh, not 500! Also, the about time to charge is not good unless you discharge your pack everytime before charging. Again your pack should be discharged at a rate around 25-30A. Lower rate will overdischarge a lot your pack and it will die. You won't be able to recharge it, and it will never perform good again. Check if your pack get's hot when you try to charge it. If it's hot almost instantly, and it still can't shoot more than 40 bbs, then it's dead. If it gets hot about 4 hours after start, then it means it is full and already have been overcharged (a pack generate heat when it get's overcharged, and at 500mAh, it is long after the pack is full that it generates heat.)

December 16th, 2006, 14:33	#12
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	Yes I agree with you, the charger could be more adapted for the need. No the battery did'nt came hot when I charged them : both 1800 and the 3600 Mh and yes I discharged them completely before the charging procedure. I'm going to follow your advise and buy a good charger. Anyway, I have a battery that is working on my TM AK-47 and won't work when I put it on the ICS MP5 A4 ? I have already change the fuse and the motor is connect on the battery (outside the pistol grip) but no running... Any advise or thing to check ?

December 16th, 2006, 14:41	#13
MadMax Delierious Designer of Dastardly Detonations Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: in the dark recesses of some metal chip filled machine shop	Unfortunately you can't determine charge time with the current ratings on a brick transformer. The mA rating on them does not indicate the current that they will drive. It indicates the maximum current the brick is designed to deliver. Brick chargers are constant voltage devices not constant current. This means that the current flow through your battery will change througout it's charge cycle as it goes from a low charge to a higher charge condition. Because of this it's difficult to determine when a pack is properly charged with brick transformers. Also, I think NiCds require around 1.5-1.6V to be applied across their terminals to acheive full charge. This means your 7 cell pack would need a supply capable of delivering 10.5V to reach full charge. Your 9V transformer is probably not able to fully charge your batteries because of this. Incedentally the requirement for a higher voltage supply means that it's not difficult to significantly overcharge a pack if you forget about it because the appropriate voltage supply can keep forcing current even when your pack is fully charged. If you're stuck with a low cost brick charger, invest in a light timer. Charge your battery and observe it carefully. Touch the pack to see when it's temperature starts to rise significantly (this indicates full charge) every 15min. When you note a strong increase in temperature, stop the charge and record how long it took to fully charge (starting from full discharge) so you can set your light timer to automatically cut off for future charges. Unfortunately this does not work for partially charged packs as they will reach full charge sooner. Unfortunately the savings in not buying a peak detecting charger are often badly offset by the cost of fried batteries. __________________ Want nearly free GBB gas?

December 16th, 2006, 15:04	#15
lizbob Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montréal	Thank you Madmax, you put a good light on that, and yes I wll buy a good charger. Good idea I will make a direct connection on the motor with a bypass on the switch gear to see if the problem is there. If not. I'm going to check every connections. One other question, how and where do you make a direct connection with alligators clip ? Sorry but electricity is not my favorite hobby. Thank again.

Problem with motor power

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