HELP! Completely f***ed KSC Auto Glock

[mirage13]

I have refrained from this post for several months now, as the problems were so erratic, and random, I just couldn't even find the words to accurately describe what was going on, hence, there was no sense in posting.

So here it is, all of it. Hopefully some brilliant person, somewhere will take the time to read this, and know what to do, or recognize what has gone wrong.

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OK, so I have this problem where I absolutely must fix things that aren't broken. In this particular case, my KSC Glock 26C is now out of commission. Somewhere along the lines of all the upgrades, things went wrong. It all started with the metal slide and barrel kit...

The installation went smoothly, with only minor problems removing the rear pin. I was really pleased with it's new look and feel, but was highly unimpressed by it's newly acquired, slowed rate of fire (on automatic)...

I was forced to take action!

I purchased a Guarder Enhanced Hammer Spring, HEAD 1950 Enhanced Recoil Spring & Polished Guide Rod, Firefly Rocket/Floating Valve, HEAD 1950 Hi-Flow Valve, Guarder Metal Magazine Catch, and a Proud Flat Magazine Base with the Glock logo...

While waiting for all of these items to arrive (aside from the hammer spring, which I had already picked up), I was tempted by a good price from a reliable source, and got my hands on a KSC 50 Round Extended Magazine.

The first upgrade was the hammer spring (since it was the first part I got a hold of). Obviously, the installation was a TEN HOUR FUCKING NIGHTMARE, but eventually, I got everything back in place, and best of all, it worked. It worked with my stock 20 round magazine both on semi and full. Honestly, I didn't experience much of a power-boost from this upgrade, and it didn't increase my rate of fire, either, but it was installed now, and that was that.

Next I got the 50 round magazine. It was brand new.
I gassed it, filled it, popped it in and on semi took one shot.
Then I switched to auto. When I pulled the trigger, three or four shots fired, and it came to a stop. So I released the trigger, and pulled it again. Nothing.

Confused, I dropped the magazine and checked to see if there was a BB chambered, which there was. I returned the slide to battery, and reinserted the mag. Pulling the trigger resulted in the same thing, three or four shots.

When I switched back to semi, and fired several shots, I found it resulted in close to the same thing: three to seven shots, and then it would no longer blow the slide back enough to re-cock the hammer for the next shot. So I gave up on it, and just figured that it was a lost cause, and without the Enhanced Recoil Spring, this gun just wouldn't function properly (as this gun has always from day one, required the slide to return to battery very quickly, I believe to trip a sear... If you slowly guide it back to battery, it won't work... You must pull the slide back all the way, and let it snap back into position at full force.) Anyway, it never did quite make any sense to me why one mag worked, and one mag didn't...

The final slew of upgrades came next. The first thing I tried, obviously, was the enhanced recoil spring. Upon inspection, it didn't look all that enhanced... The spring does not seem to be a higher gauge, nor are there more coils. In fact, there are actually one or two less coils. The guide rod holding this "enhanced" spring, is polished, possibly providing the gun with a smoother, and as a result, quicker action? Either way, this part did not speed up my unsatisfying rate of fire, nor did it solve the problem with the extended magazine.

Slightly upset and discouraged, I installed the hi-flow valve into my extended magazine, to see if perhaps the stock valve was faulty. This part did indeed provide a recognizable power increase to each shot, however it, as well as the recoil spring, failed to solve the problem of the extended magazine. So I extracted it from the extended mag, and installed it into the standard mag.

Upon testing, I was now faced with random occurrences of a slightly different problem, in that not only did the hammer not cock, but the slide would jam after about 1.5 cm of moving back. I could see that the nozzle was stuck in its forward position. In order to do anything, I had to first drop the mag. I then forced the nozzle back into proper position (which was fairly difficult), and removed the slide using standard procedure: pull slide back, pull down the pins, pull slide forward, it gets stuck on the internal hammer, I insert a small object (ie. propane adaptor tip) to press the hammer farther down, so the slide can freely glide over it, and off the rails of the lower body. (Somewhere along this guns life, field stripping became a problem due to this. I don't have any idea what caused it, or how to solve it, I've just come to accept it.)

Very confused, I started to believe strongly that it wasn't the magazines that were the problem, but perhaps the stock rocket valve (which is apparently know to break in KSC Auto Glocks) had busted. So I removed the main screw, threaded pin, and main pin, and lifted the assembly from the slide. I then proceeded to remove the stock rocket valve. When I removed the pin from the nozzle, and dumped out it's insides, facing me was not only the spring and the stock plastic rocket valve (which seemed to be in perfect condition), but as well, a tiny shardling of black plastic, who's origin is unknown. Assuming that the removal of this little scrap piece was going to solve most of my problems, I happily went along and reassembled the nozzle, this time with the metal rocket valve, and then replaced the whole assembly back into the slide.

No dice. This only seemed to make the new problem of the jamming slide/nozzle occur more often... Very frustrated, I decided to take a break, and installed the metal mag catch, just for the hell of it. I was very unhappy with the result: unable to easily insert magazines, they would jam halfway in. When you do finally get the magazine in, it does not make the metal on metal "clink" sound I was hoping for. And finally, after only maybe four or five insertions and drops, the paint on the magazine was completely worn and scratched.

After spending $300 on upgrades, and weeks of torment and frustration waiting for, installing, and being let down by part after part, I decided I was much happier with the gun in its stock form.

And so began the great tear-down.
Everything was taken apart. Everything was cleaned. Appropriate parts and places were oiled. All upgrades/aftermarket parts were removed (including the hi-flow valve in the mag) and replaced with the original stock parts. Luckily, I had retained some of the skill I had acquired from the ten hours of horrible misery that was my enhanced hammer spring installation, and I managed to replace the upgraded hammer spring with the stock one, and get it all back together in about half an hour.

When the whole gun was reassembled, I inserted the fully gassed and loaded standard mag, and took a shot on semi. It was crisp and quick. I was happy. I pulled the trigger a few times, a few nice shots went off, until finally, around the eight or ninth shot, the slide didn't go back all the way, and the hammer seemed to remain half-pressing the release valve, as the gas was being released at constant rate. (This was not a usual end-of-mag gas emptying... This was the hammer being stuck on the release valve...) When I tried again, it did the same thing.

With a fully re-gassed and reloaded mag, I switched to auto, and pulled the trigger. This caused the slide to blow back about 2 cm, and then it completely blew off the lower body's track on the left side. Stunned, I stared at it, and began trying to unjam what in my eyes seemed like a terrible car crash. When I got it apart, I inspected it fully. I didn't see anything that looked any different than normal. So I put the slide back on, and tried again. Same result. I figured that despite the fact everything looks alright to my eyes, I had probably failed to put -something- back together properly. I assumed that if it was anything, it would be the hammer assembly.

So out it comes from the lower frame. I popped out the pin, inspected each piece (they were all good), re-reviewed the exploded diagram (just to be sure), and again, reassembled it all.

With the selector switch on safe, I replaced the slide onto the body. Still on safe, I attempted to pull the slide back, but it only budged maybe 0.5cm before getting stuck, and refusing to go back any farther. And this is where I'm at right now. At the moment, everything is packed up in it's original packaging, next to the mass pile of bags of BBs and bottles of propane, just dying to be used.

Having absolutely no idea what to do now, I've ordered a brand new KSC Glock 19 from the new ASC Armory, and have taken to writing this absurdly long and detailed airsoft gun biography, just in hopes that a real, qualified, licensed Glock M.D. will be able to diagnose the problem(s).

If you read this entire post: Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
If you have any suggestions, or ideas, or anything, please, for the love of god, let me know!

Thanks,

Mirage

EDIT: Update - I was playing around with it, with the slide off, and yeah... out of nowhere I notice this little metal piece... Then I notice it's from the hammer, and now the hammer swings way too far forward, and is stopped only by the hammer assembly frame.

I guess this is one done gun.

[ILLusion]

The rear assembly of your gun is toast. that piece that you found is broken off when you release the hammer with the slide off. Without the slide in place, there is nothing stopping the hammer from striking forward except for that metal piece you found. MadMax once made a post warning KSC Glock users to never release the trigger/hammer with the slide off if there is nothing to stop the hammer from striking the frame (such as the slide or your finger.)

I'd like to help you with your problem, but such GBB gremlins are very difficult to e-diagnose. It must be handled and inspected in person. Are you injecting silicone oil into your magazines?

Regarding your slide blowing off the rail, this is very very very common for plastic slide KSC Glocks running off propane. They're just not built to take that kind of power all the time.



The following are practices that should be maintained with ALL GBBs for the greatest amount of longevity:

The steel mag catch issue: almost ALL GBBs, if you care about the durability and finish of the mag and mag catch itself, ALWAYS press the mag catch in and hold it in before you insert the magazine and only release it once the magazine is fully inserted.
This prevents the paint being scratched off the mag.
If the catch is plastic, doing it this way will also prevent the edge of the catch from wearing down quicker. If your plastic mag catch gets worn down, your mag will sit too low and you will have power losses as well as feeding issues due to the poor seal.

Also, when releasing the magazine, push up on the base of the magazine before pressing the mag catch, and THEN let the magazine fall out, while continuing to press the mag catch.

Another one that many people are not aware of: when your slide locks back and you insert a new magazine, AVOID using the slide catch release to drop the slide back into battery. Using it will add premature wear to the corner on the slide that interfaces with the catch. If possible, pull back on the slide after inserting the new magazine to return it to battery.

[mirage13]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

The rear assembly of your gun is toast. that piece that you found is broken off when you release the hammer with the slide off. Without the slide in place, there is nothing stopping the hammer from striking forward except for that metal piece you found.

Yeah... I wish I had known that before I learned the hard way...

Anyway, I know that I need a new part #263, but I'm fairly sure that everything else in my rear assembly is in good condition.

I keep looking at it and keep thinking that something is off with part # 260... it looks really worn out... is it possible that could be the root of all this?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by mirage13

Yeah... I wish I had known that before I learned the hard way...

Anyway, I know that I need a new part #263, but I'm fairly sure that everything else in my rear assembly is in good condition.

I keep looking at it and keep thinking that something is off with part # 260... it looks really worn out... is it possible that could be the root of all this?

I don't think so. That's only part of the selector assembly and doesn't sound like that would be the cause of your problems... although it could be, in combination with another part.

[mirage13]

Well, I replaced the entire hammer assembly with parts from a near-mint 18C. This solved the dissassembly issue (the slide comes right off now, smooth as butter), and as well, I can now fire in Semi auto.

However, when a switch to FA, the hammer strike seems to just release all the gas (and if the mag is freshly filled, it blows the slide off the rails on one side...)

Any ideas?

[Kwokwai]

I hope you didn't replace any of the selector parts with those from the G18C. There's one tiny piece (part no. 253) that isn't cross-compatible. I've got it here as the previous owner of my 23F had the piece from the 26C instead of the correct one. I've already gotten my hands on the correct part but I'd be willing to do a direct swap of the 26C part for your 18C part with you if you need it. See this link for my original posting.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=16343

[mirage13]

Nope, just the parts in the rear of the lower frame.

I still can't figure out why it isn't working... gah...

[mirage13]

Well... after taking everything apart (Again!!!!), inspecting, futzing and experimenting, I managed to get it working again, with all the upgrades installed (excluding the enhanced hammer spring and rocket valve, which I traded for the new hammer assembly).

I'm not exactly sure what did the trick... It could have been the reassembly of either the hammer assembly or the slide internals, or perhaps the removal of the paint on the tracks inside the metal slide (to allow for smoother action in conjunction with the hammer assembly and lower frame's rails), or maybe even the few drops of oil dropped in a few select spots. Who knows...

I wish I knew exactly what fixed it, but either way:
Hooray for full-metal full-auto wonderfulness!

I'm not religious, but God, if you're reading this: Thank you.