AI Propane Adapter Question

[DJ_Mittens]

Hey folks,

I have a 4th generation AI Propane adapter and I noticed that, compared to the adapter used at Xtreme Tactics, mine sprays out a lot of propane when I'm filling my magazines. The ones at XT don't seem to spray out at all, even when filling the same magazine.

Now, while XT uses those wide green propane tanks, I use those tall blue propane tanks from Canadian Tire, because they're a bit cheaper. However, I can't see that making a difference, as propane is propane.

I did notice that my nozzle isn't perfectly round, and that it's ever so slightly deformed. It's barely noticable, and I could be seeing things it is so slight, but I'm wondering if that is perhaps part of the problem.

So, I'm just wondering what the difference could be. Any ideas?

[stokes]

1- What mag are you using?

2- Could this escape of gas be because your mag has a problem?

3- Did you drop your AI adaptor or damage it in any way?

4- Who did you purchase the adaptor from?

If you purchased this in its current condition then try to get a refund.

[DJ_Mittens]

1. KSC G19 magazine

2. No, because the other adapter I'm using works fine.

3. No, never been dropped, I've never even bumped the nozzle. The slight imperfection makes the nozzle wider, as though I squeezed it onto the magazine too hard, which I can't imagine.

4. I bought it from a local guy. If possible, I suppose I could return it, but I want to just make sure the adapter isn't faulty first before I try to proceed with replacing it.

For extra information, I have used it to fill about 20 magazines in total. It's still relatively new, and has always sprayed out visible amounts of gas - like it's not making a perfect seal with the magazine - unlike the XT one which does not.

[Quaff]

Mine does that too.
TM P226 (3 mags total)
some other people have filled with my adaptor, results vary but gas always seems to spray out.

[MadMax]

Specifically where is the leakage visible? I have noted that sometimes I see white vapor blasting out of the mag fill valve (small diameter). I have sometimes noted that mist can sometimes spray at the much larger diameter bore in the bottle fitting.

Each leakage comes from very different places:

Spray from mag valve: You can tell because the spray originates at the periphery of the mag valve diameter or the diameter of the hole in the baseplate in the mag. This occurs when the mag is full (backspurt) or if the tip of your adaptor is significantly damaged. Small dings or slight out of roundedness should not be too much of a problem really.


Spray from the bottle fitting opening: spray blast appears at the opening of the bottle fitting (much larger dia then the a tip-fill valve leak). I don't know why I didn't see this issue with earlier builds of the adaptor. It might be because more V4 adaptors have been released than all prior builds put together and that all versions suffer from the same issue. I did not change the tank end of my probe that much between builds so I suspect that orings in Coleman propane tanks may have changed slightly.

Anyways, it appears that this problem can occur when the user does not fully depress the probe into the tank. A shy push pushes the probe far enough to open the schraeder valve in the tank, but not far enough to push the part of the probe which tapers to a larger diameter into the tank oring. While the minimum diameter of the tank end is usually large enough to make a decent seal, sideloading the tip can push the tank end sideways and allow a leak out one side between the oring and the tank end of the probe. If you push more firmly, the out taper pushes and makes a more reliable seal.

I've addressed the issue in a recent build of the V4 adaptor. I moved the out taper closer to the tip to get more squeeze in the oring sooner in the probe travel. I wasn't able to make the oring leak with intentional sideload with a plugged adaptor tip so I think the issue is addressed.

Not enough changes to call the product V5, perhaps V4+ or even not mentioning things at all to save the annoucement for a louder launch for a future V5 maybe.

[DJ_Mittens]

Thanks for the replies.

There is a somewhat large amount of white vapor coming from the mag fill valve. It's somewhat difficult to tell if it's full or not, because there's always a fair amount spraying out from all directions, not just a little wee spurt like in your V3 video.

I do push fairly hard, and I push straight down on the mag. Any harder, and I worry about actually deforming that probe.

There is no spray coming out of the tank end of the probe at all. It's all on the mag fill end.

See, the thing I'm noticing is that given all else being equal (except the tank type), the adapter I use at XT doesn't seem to have a large amount of overspray that mine does. If I could guess, the amount of spray looks like I'm depressing the valve on the tank and just dumping the gas into the atmosphere. When using the valve, it does fill my magazine, it's just the large amount of overspray doesn't seem right.

I'm going to take a video tonight to show you. I'll also measure the deformity on the mag fill valve with my calipers tonight too. I'm sure it's no more than 1mm, but I'm fairly sure it's there.

[CDN_Stalker]

My V4 eventually did that as well, so I took it apart, placed the brass nozzle backside into a drill, then spun it and reshaped by pressing the tip of the nozzle on a hard chunk of smooth steel. It worked great, that was a few months ago, is starting to flare out a bit again, but at least I know how to properly reshape it in the future.

[DJ_Mittens]

I might try that, the only concern is damaging it. I'l try just lightly tapping it back into shape and see what happens with that.

*edit* I measured the diameter difference. The probe is nominally about 2.85mm in diameter. The deformed tip is about 2.95mm. So, 1/10mm difference.

I also took a better look at it. It looks like it's spraying mostly from the mag fill valve, but also a bit is spurting out of the gap between the probe and the mounting ring. I have a video that shows how it's spraying out, if someone can host a 10mb video file. I'm going to try filling it again, but this time watching closer, which means I can't videotape it easily.

I'm holding it down quite hard; I wonder if the spring is too strong for my weak arms

*edit x2*

I just tried again - it only seems to spray out of the ring/probe gap when the magazine is full, not when it's filling - seems to me that should be fine, if not a wee bit abnormal too.

[DJ_Mittens]

Here is the video:

[CDN_Stalker]

Don't bother tapping it back into shape, it won't work. Just take it apart like I said, put it in a drill, spin it while pressing down on the tip into some peice of hard steel, then shape it that way. Tapping it will only screw it up more. What I suggest is perfectly safe, and it works.

[DJ_Mittens]

I'll give it a shot tonight and let you know how it works.

[MadMax]

First off I'd say that you're not aligning the tank and the mag properly. You start with the mag in line with the tank, but you end up with the tank nearly perpindicular with the mag baseplate. You may have pranged the tip of the adaptor in the fill valve doing that.

Hold the bottle closer to the mag and hold it such that the centre axis of the tank and the centre line of the mag are coaxial (inline). Fill probes and tanks are typically held parallel to the mag, not perpindicularly with the baseplate.

[DJ_Mittens]

I know, that video is a bit off because I had to hold it in a somewhat awkward position for the camera, with my arms outstretched instead of closer to me. I make sure that I hold the tank parallel with the magazine.

I'll try it again when I'm at home. I'll also test the other magazines, and I'll also compare my adapter with the one at XT, to see if there is a difference I can notice.

[DJ_Mittens]

Alright, I did your trick CDN_Stalker and it seemed to make a big difference. I spent a lot of time on the outside, and on closer inspection it looked like the inside had some imperfections, so I used the sharp corner of my stainless steel plate and cleaned that a bit too - took some copper off on both sides leaving a bit of a sharp edge.

Now there's still a bit of spray, but not nearly as much. I'm going to spend some more time on it, but that seems to be doing quite well.

Thanks CDN_Stalker and everyone else for the help.

[MadMax]

I just got a limited run of hardened steel probes in. They cost me a bunch, but I thought I'd try a pilot run of heavy duty adaptors to test the market. 3x the strength of brass!