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December 29th, 2015, 07:11
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#1 |
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Scar-L WE DMR - Terrible Accuracy and consistency
Hey there...
I own a WE Scar-L wich i use as a DMR. It comes originally with a 350mm barrel, not sure about inner diameter, and a ported cilinder, and shot at an average of 440FPS with .20. Installed a R-HOP onto it as i do for all my guns. So far so good... Problem is that i was experiencing terrible accurary and consistency issues at a range of 65 meters, which is my most common engagement distance when i play as DM. I usually use either .30 or .36 BBs. Don't know why, but i suspected i was under-volumed, them i replaced stock cylinder by a fully closed one, and also replaced the barrel by a 6.03 455mm one. Problems persist! One shot goes to the right, other goes to the left, one gets not enough hop and drop way before the target, other gets over-hoped and goes way beyond the target, it's terrible and completally unstrastable, mainly for DM purposes. There are a few things that gets me suspecious: 1. FPS variation/inconsistency 2. Over-volume 3. Under-volume Then, in order to gather some data for deeper analysis, i took measurements with several BB weights by using a xcortech chronograph, and also did some math and determined that i am at an 1.94 cylinder to barrel ratio. I'll present cronograh data below and later i'll put a few questions: PS: Just remembering that in Brazil FPS Limit for DMR is 450 FPS. FPS VS JOULES BB WEIGHT: .20 432 1.72J 436 1.76J 443.9 1.83J 439.2 1.79J 436.2 1.76J 441 1.80J 443 1.82J 441 1.81J 441 1.80J 439.5 1.79J 436.9 1.77J 443.7 1.82J 440.5 1.80J 442.1 1.81J 437.4 1.77J 441.8 1.81J 442.3 1.81J 447.7 1.83J 442.2 1.83J 442.1 1.81J 442.9 1.82J 443.9 1.83J 447.4 1.85J 442.6 1.81J 443.7 1.82J 445.8 1.84J 436.7 1.77J 442.3 1.71J 442.1 1.81J BB WEIGHT: .28 374.1 1.81J 362.4 1.70J 371.7 1.79J 371.4 1.79J 374.7 1.82J 375.6 1.83J 373.8 1.81J 371.2 1.79J 374.5 1.82J 373.6 1.81J 373.4 1.81J 369 1.76J 364 1.72J 371.4 1.79J 374.9 1.82J 372.3 1.79J 374.1 1.81J 372.6 1.80J 372.6 1.80J 374.1 1.81J 375.3 1.82J BB WEIGHT: .30 359 1.79J 351.8 1.72J 356.9 1.77J 359.1 1.79J 351 1.71J 354.5 1.74J 354.2 1.74J 353.3 1.73J 352.7 1.73J 356.3 1.76J 356.7 1.77J 358 1.78J 358.4 1.78J 355.7 1.76J 356.3 1.76J 354.2 1.74J 355.3 1.75J 357.9 1.78J 359.9 1.80J 356.2 1.76J 356.9 1.77J 354.2 1.74J 355.8 1.76J 354.8 1.75J 355.2 1.75J 355.3 1.75J 356.3 1.76J 358.4 1.78J 355 1.75J BB WEIGHT: .36 326.4 1.78J 320.5 1.71J 327 1.78J 323.2 1.74J 324.7 1.76J 322.1 1.73J 324.8 1.76J 326.5 1.78J 322.6 1.74J 321.9 1.73J 322.9 1.74J 325.3 1.76J 327.4 1.79J 330.1 1.82J 327.1 1.78J 325 1.76J 323.9 1.75J 324.6 1.76J 322.5 1.73J 326.7 1.78J 326.1 1.77J 327.1 1.78J 327.7 1.79J 325.1 1.76J 323.4 1.74J 327 1.78J 323.9 1.75J 324.1 1.75J 322.2 1.73J 325.7 1.77J 323.9 1.75J Now, the questions: 1. Do these readings sugest any FPS inconsistency capable of such a huge HOP variations or do these readings sugest it is a gun with stable FPS? 2. Do these readings sugest i am over-volumed once as BB weight increases joules keeps almost the same? I tried to increase BB weight untill the point where joules started to significantlly drop, which in theory would indicate i started to get under-volumed, but that didn't happend and do not have any heavier bb, so, would this mean i am still over-volumed even for .36s? Any help would be appreciated. If i forget any point above please let me know. Also, if anyone has a different point of view or other lines of investigation i'd like to hear about it! |
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December 29th, 2015, 15:40
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#2 |
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Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
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Air volume is fine, consistency is fine.
Most likely problem (I'm talking 95% certainty) is you didn't form the Rhop correctly. Double check you're using the proper (flat) nub to put pressure on the Rhop, and try re-forming the Rhop patch. If the patch is formed properly, and you have a +-30fps inconsistency, you should see the BBs have a more random amount of hop on them, but still fly very straight. If the patch is not formed correctly, expect to see a lot of left-right inconsistency as well as random amounts of hop applied. At 1.8j with .30s, expect to be in the 85-95m range with a properly made patch. At 1.8j with .36s, expect to be in the 95-105m range with a properly made patch. The downside with Rhop is it that its performance is entirely dependent on the skill of the person forming the patch. I don't want to discourage you, but maybe you should try flat-hop instead? Very similar results, but significantly easier to do. |
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December 29th, 2015, 15:59
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#3 | |
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They ThunderCactus...
Tks for the reply... I'm a hundred percent sure that my patch is right! I've done r-hops in several guns... Actually i have a different approach which ensures a 100% well done patch. I use silicon hoses, and these silicon hoses have an inner diameter of exactly 6mms, so, all i have to work is on the out side. In order to ensure the outside is perfectly flush with the barrel, i cut my hose to lengh, insert it into a 6.5mm machined steel mandrel, and spin it on my lathe and cut dowb the external of the hose to 9mms. When i remove the hose from the mandrel it has the exact diameters of the barrel, either inside or outside. All i have to do now is cut the hose to fit my barrel window, which of course is also made on the lathe. So, i can garantee if i make 100% patches all of them will come perfectly equal everytime! Quote:
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December 29th, 2015, 16:05
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#4 |
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formerly steyr
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Make sure everything is clean. Barrel of course, but also your bbs and mags.
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December 29th, 2015, 16:11
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#5 | |
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Quote:
Barrel bore shines like diamond 
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December 29th, 2015, 16:26
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#6 |
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Squid Porn Superstar, I love the tentacles!
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WE SCAR L is a horrible AEG. Tolerances are horrible, gun sounds wretched. It is possible that the tolerances are causing an issue, but unlikely. Your FPS consistency is not good, but it would not cause your gun to be extremely inaccurate.
I'm going to say that it is most likely an improperly installed R-Hop or a defective/damaged barrel. |
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December 29th, 2015, 16:32
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#7 | |
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Quote:
Where exactlly do you think such a bad tolerances are present? What do you think i should look for in order to determine whether i have a damaged barrel or not? |
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December 29th, 2015, 16:43
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#8 |
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Squid Porn Superstar, I love the tentacles!
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The tolerances were loose in general, parts did not stay in place, metal parts were extremely soft, plastic parts were poorly made.
As for the barrel, if it passes a thorough visual inspection, then it probably is okay. The only way to confirm is to get a different barrel and compare. |
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December 29th, 2015, 16:55
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#9 | |
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Quote:
Mine is 1 year old and has no play at all. Lower receiver and stock is made out of polymer, everything else metal. Hopup unit is a very solid clear plastic/acrylic which is way better than any other plastic hopup i've ever seen... Upper receiver is made out of alluminum and is very very very well finished. Actually, this gun has very little amount of moving parts, so, i'm really confused about the tolerances you mentioned.... Anyways, that's not the focus of the thread! I'll have the barrel visually inspected again, but have tested it with different barrels and the same problems persist! |
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December 29th, 2015, 18:02
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#10 | |
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newer WE series of AEG are one of the best out of the box. I have no idea why you find it's a horrible AEG.
OP, di you happen to have the outer barrel extension and/or silencer attached?
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December 29th, 2015, 18:12
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#11 | |
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Just the get things clear here, i do not find it to be a horrible AEG ok? Pestobanana DOES!
I think it's a greate AEG with amazing quality everywhere. My problems started when i converted it to a DMR. YES, i got a fake suppressor on it, and at first i thought it could have something to do with it, but the same bad behavior is present with or without the suppressor. Quote:
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December 29th, 2015, 19:53
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#12 |
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Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
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Just for the sake of being thorough, try just using a regular G&G green hop rubber or something similar, just to rule out the Rhop.
What brand of ammo are you using? |
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December 29th, 2015, 20:53
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#13 | ||
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Quote:
Everything before was to Pesto So you are running a CQB-lengh (nothing past the gaz block) with a fake silencer or a 4" extension then a silencer? I have seen some extensions getting bents or having burs/defects inside the bore. That can cause the BBs to hit and change direction. You also should try a stock AEG barrel/non-hopped. I tried a SCAR-L AEG when they came out, and it was amazing stock from the box. Only change I did was swapping the spring to shoot under 400. First 10 minutes, took out 7 guys at roughly 80m. Stock bore is 6.04mm, and it's good quality.
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December 29th, 2015, 20:55
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#14 | |
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Quote:
But whatever bb i use, the same behavior is still there... I do not have a green G&G bucking, i'll have to buy it and wait a few months untill it arrives... What's your point in suggesting using this bucking? |
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December 30th, 2015, 04:01
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#15 |
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Hey ThunderCactus..
Sorry sorry sorry.... i do have a G&G green bucking i took of an G&G MP5 top tech! Disassembled the hole hopup system, and, as WE scar-l hopup unit is clear plastic, luckly i can see throught it! I was using a madbull bucking, and made a test: 1. With the barrel, bucking, and hopup unit everything assembled together and out of the gun, i tried to move the whole package towards the gearbox in order to check how the "penetration" of the airnozzle into the lips of the bucking was happening.... For my surprise, if i test it 10 times, 4 or 5 times only the nozzle really fits into the bucking lips... the rest of the times instead penetrating, it bends a small portion of the lips at a random position. My first thoughts were: 1. It may be the cause of such a big fps deviation (10 fps or more) 2. It may be the cause of horizontal or vertical deviation, because if the lip bends at a given position, the air will not blow perfectly behind the bb, instead, a given portion of the bb may not receive air, and theorically it could cause a random spin or at least a random positioning of the bb inside the barrel! So, i replaced the madbull bucking by the G&G green one, and remade the fitment test.... 10 times 10 successfully penetration of the nozzle into the bucking lips. OK... reassembled everything and went to the chrono! No more than 2, or in the worst case, 3 FPS deviation! It's insanelly CONSISTENT AND STABLE! UHULLLLLLLLLLLLL! I'll become a huge fan of G&G bucking from now on! Just waiting for the day light to come in order to test it and see how the bb is flying now! |
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