Applying hop upside Down?

[p0nch3]

After watching some Filipino airsoft tournaments, I was seeing a lot of people spraying from just under a piece of cover. So I started to wonder if it was feasible to apply hop upside down. Think, shooting your regular gun upside down so that the BB curves down, over cover. As it is now applying hop forces the BB to curve up. But would it still work if a hop-up was designed with the rubber on the bottom instead.

Is there a specific design flaw or disadvantage to a hop-down design?

[siggypoo]

I'm not sure how good that'd be for performance, the liquid of the propane would flow directly into the valve, wouldn't it? Not the expanded gas, but the fuel itself.
Or am I completely misunderstanding how it works, lol?

[lurkingknight]

it's not unusual to see guys turning their guns to manipulate the hop direction to go around obstacles... Some guys call it cheap and unrealistic...

I call it some damn fine instinct marksmanship to be able to anticipate and make use of something like that that's not sighted in. It's actually pretty cool when you get it to work, it's almost always never works because the guy is not at the range where the hop bends into him.

You also have to account for the BB dropping now that there's no topspin to keep it lofting, no hop shots only fly about 80 feet and it's a constant drop.

I've only really done mild canting to try and hop into a crosswind to keep the BB straight. I've never really seriously attempted any corner bending shots.

[p0nch3]

Originally Posted by siggypoo

I'm not sure how good that'd be for performance, the liquid of the propane would flow directly into the valve, wouldn't it? Not the expanded gas, but the fuel itself.
Or am I completely misunderstanding how it works, lol?

Well, no. I'm thinking more something like turning the hop-up unit upside down and changing the position of the nub as opposed to downward feeding

[MultipleParadox]

From what I understand, having your rubber on the bottom to basically reverse the spin of the BB wouldn't "work" in the sense that it wouldn't give lift to the BB, and invariably make it drop much faster.

If I got it right, the Magnus effect works by having the BB spin "backward", so that the bottom of it travels faster than the top and this is what it gives its lift

By no mean am I an expert on the subject and I might be totally in the wrong though. I'd need to read up on that I guess. If anyone can spoon feed me this one though :P

I heard of people attempting "corner shots" around cover by shooting sideways, but have yet to hear one of them say they hit their target :P

[siggypoo]

Oh, I see! Sorry. I don't think I have any guns capable of that, but I've yet to check them out that thoroughly.

[ThunderCactus]

It would totally work, but your BB's wouldn't fly more than 60ft or so.
60ft is about the range you get with no hop, so applying anti-hop would only ever reduce that distance.

[p0nch3]

That would make sense, less distance wouldn't be too bad of a thing since I wouldn't really be trying Wanted shots in outdoor games. This is something I'd want in indoor games mainly.

[Hectic]

just turn the gun over when needed (spring and electric only obviously) us snipers use this type of trick (cranking the hop up, up to curve the bb over/around cover. Takes practice but it works

[AngelusNex]

SO you want a gun to ONLY be able to make accurate shots while shooting upside down under cover? To me this seems like a colossal waste.

[leth1337]

To walmart!

[pusangani]

Sideways shooting to get into windows is awesome lol works really well on full auto. Not realistic but it does make the most of the tools available

[pestobanana]

This idea is really bad and really stupid. If you really want to do it just R hop a barrel and turn it upside down in your unit.

[Ricochet]

It does work, I've seen it. At least with a few guns. Your hop-up, now combined with the force of gravity drives your BB into the ground. You'd have better success going without hop and you gun upright, and then slowly applying just enough to get the distance and fall that you need. By that time however you'll have been shot.

Some players do turn their guns sideways to bend around cover and trees, but your target must be just around the edge. In order to decrease/increase distance and curve you can lay your gun over a little at a time and aim away from the target. Much like newbs do to combat wind in game. If the wind is coming from the right aim your gun to the right as necessary to get your shot where you need it. This is more of a regular "hit your target" moment than try and cheat and hit someone behind cover though.

In a windy situation, and with a good hop-up of course, you can still have a straightish flying BB by tilting your gun slowly into the wind. This is a airsoft snipers trick, but works well for any quick wind correction without looking like a dork from the movie Wanted and "curving the BB. From personal experience; we were playing on our own field up by Wardlow Alberta, so it's in the prairies. Wind is common there, but every now and then it's quite strong. Instead of quitting we'd practice gun tilting to help straighten our shots, and using the wind to our advantage by flanking enemy positions to gain wind advantage. One day it was very windy, maybe 40 km or more. You could barely hear people talk from 20 feet away. I was showing our guys the wind tilt trick with my PTW. Gun shoots about 410 FPS on. 0.20g and I was running 0.28g Bio BB Bastards. Hop-up by MacGuyver. Anyways, not only could I straighten out my shot shooting cross wind, but if I fully tilted my gun flat into the wind, the BB's were actually sailing into it. On a normal windy day only a very slight tilt is needed to straighten your shot. You will lose a little distance overall, but you'll be surprised what your gun can do. High quality heavier rounds, balanced FPS, and a solid hop-up help.

So for guys running scopes or closed sights, it's a good idea to have a doctors sight or irons you can go to in a pinch, as they are easier to shoot on an angle as straightening out BB's in the wind isn't an exact science and you may need to take few shots to get your desired effect. Just food for thought.

As far as sportsmanship goes, I'll put it this way, just because you hit a guy with a BB doesn't mean he's going to call it, nor does it mean he necessarily should. Airsoft is about sportsmanship through and through. Without it the game falls apart. Here's an example; I was at Operation: Mason Relic II, III, & IV. During the times we would play in the factory area, we'd often use the old kilns in the center for cover. They were round brick buildings with dome-like roofs. In between them were brick piles, pallet piles and other debris to hide behind. Often times you'd get Saw Gunners down these areas creating pinch points. On this one occasion I was behind a kiln and this young guy with his LMG was desperately trying to hold us at bay. The only issue was that our guns outshot his by quite a margin. He could fill the street with BBs though, and had great cover. While we were standing behind the kiln we could see masses of his rounds bouncing down the path on front of us. Maybe he was getting frustrated or whatever, I'm not sure, but all of a sudden a shower of a BBs came down over the kiln and rained down over us. I'm 6'3' - 6'4", these kilns were much taller than that. He was spraying into the sky and letting his BBs arc down on top of us. In my opinion that's just as unviable a practice as curving a BB around cover to get an enemy. No difference there except some minor physics. It's the same tool doing the same job except your using gravity not hop.

Bottom line is that I didn't call it and I shouldn't have. I clearly did the right thing. So you may say it's an intelligent airsoft tactic, but if your opponent doesn't call your BS hit, then wasting those rounds does you no good.

Here's a few things to consider though:
- Always follow the rules of the game or field you're on. Even if they allow curved BBs.
- Arcing BBs is about the same thing as throwing them at your opponent. They may hit them but it doesn't count. Unless that game has some goofy rule about it.


Here's a few questions to consider:
- If the wind or breeze pushes the BB into you, do you call it? Do you call it if you're behind cover?
- If you're not sure how the BB got you, either by cheap shot, environmental/weather interference, or complete fluke, do you call it?

To the above two I'd personally take the hit. In my opinion we have to be forgiving to our physical limitations in airsoft. However if it's a matter of someone blatantly being cheap, then no I won't.

[Hectic]

Ricochet, i do see your point about arcing or curving bb's could he seen as a "cheat, or cheap shot. However with the tools at our disposal.i would argue that lobbing bbs to a target or curving them over/around cover takes a fair bit of skill to do consistantly (im talkin bolt action or even semi auto aeg, not emptyin a box mag down range and hoping for the best lol) seein as i cant shoot you through the cover as i would with a real round, if i have the skill to hit u around the cover id hope youd call the hit, the old "when in doubt call yourself out" type thing. Again lobbing a bag full of bb's down range is one thing, but a well placed round, even if slightly courved around a tree or wall isstill a hit IMO, so long as im not bouncing it off something like we're playin pool lol.

Here's a few questions to consider:- If the wind or breeze pushes the BB into you, do you call it? YES.
Do you call it if you're behind cover? YES
- If you're not sure how the BB got you, either by cheap shot, environmental/weather interference, or complete fluke, do you call it? YES