Steel Beats Plastic

[Bandit50]

If you’ve owned or own an A&K Masada, chances are you have had a few components break on the external aspect of the gun. Due to game play, or just general maintenance. I know many have been hunting the web for fixes and or replacement parts.

Such as the 3d printed piece someone has produced, which you could order for a short time from a website that would pay the creator a small amount of cash. Which has also been pulled due to the scare of 3d printed rifles on those kinds of sites.



Here is my solution.



That’s right, I have completely fabricated and formed “one” out of steel. It works wonders by the way, so much that I know I will be making a replacement for my slide release for my airsoft gun using the same methods. It gives me some confidence from now on knowing that my stock should never break.

Now, before anyone asks. No, I cannot make you one. For a few reasons, one is the labour time, second is the material costs and supply. Finally the quality of work, as this is not a 100% steel version of the plastic component that fits the stock, and how I made it so this piece fits that stock, as the tolerances can vary from stock to stock.

With that out of the way, if there are many people who are desperate and very interested, and have the resources, tools and don’t mind the 7 hours of work. Yes it takes that long to produce “one” of these without a jig, or templates and a lot of filing, grinding, dremel work and the use of a Vernier calipers. Or would like to pay a shop to make one for them. I can produce some hand drawn technical blue prints (That are professionally done), for the dimensions, assembly / welding, and a bill of materials that will be required to make the piece.

Keep in mind that this means around 25 people, in need of the piece. Also something to consider for this piece is the cost including the labour. IMO would be around 80-30$ depending on the use of jigs and equipment such as Welding magnets, corner vise, Punch press, or even a CNC Mill. Sadly, I do not own an assembly line to decrease the cost and make 100 units/hour, and considering a whole replacement stock is around 38$. Your might, want to consider the whole stock. Vs paying someone 80$ to make a piece that is smaller than 2 cubic inches, and doesn’t look pretty from the underside.

Though this is one piece I can say “I am proud of” and yes. I do wish I had a mill, or another 25000$ piece of equipment to produce this. Sadly, I am just a student, with 1.5 years of a mechanical engineering/technologist degree, in my father’s fabrication shop, so I had to make do with what I had.

Cheers, to those that solve issues with recycling scrap or left over material, otherwise known as hot-roding!

[Kokanee]

I would be happy to produce a polymer version if I was given the files. 3D print a master copy and cast production versions in resin polymer (high strength)

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by Kokanee

I would be happy to produce a polymer version if I was given the files. 3D print a master copy and cast production versions in resin polymer (high strength)

That's what I like to hear, if you want I can talk to the guy who developed the 3d printed version and see if I can get him to pass along the file, otherwise I can see what we can do about the creation of a file.

[fireballpt]

Hello all,

I've taken the time to read all the posts and I must say Bandit50 that in this case the latch being steel does offer a better resistance but that means that in case of you leaving your replica fall to the ground or like me trip in a branch and fall down on the ground with the replica under you, it may break on the upper receiver side and so much more difficult to fix.

I think is better that you have a part that you know is cheaper to replace. And I took the time to enhance the latch design to be more resistant.


I have yet again added the part to the Shapeways store. You can find it here
in black and in white plastic versions. It's not dirty cheap but can be an alternative to someone that don't have access to a new stock or Airsoft stores nearby.

[ThunderCactus]

I was just going to mention that lol
Improve the durability of one piece, and it will risk destroying another.
Sacrificial parts are important.

[SuperHog]

Instead of just discussing it on this forum, there are many aftermarket companies that are capable of producing this latch that it is an easily broken part. I doubt they know about your needs and even read these threads.

Being plastic is actually good, but better plastic is needed. You know airsoft stuff from China is probably uses the cheapest plastic and pot metal just to make money. After all it is just a working replica gun with zero warranty.

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by Kokanee

I would be happy to produce a polymer version if I was given the files. 3D print a master copy and cast production versions in resin polymer (high strength)

The part has been reuploaded on to Shapeways..

Your welcome Kokanee, if you can't wait and want to start making the casts. I will still try to get the file from the creator though, I believe it's always better to have more then one copy floating around, Good Luck I hope you can produce some fine molds!

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/AirsoftCustomParts

I will also pick one of these up to get exact measurements at the end of this month.

To the others who posted, I am aware I run the risk of breaking the actual stock, however considering how the actual stock is molded and it's thickness is much higher then that of the shelled away component aka (the stock button). In my opinion much like the guys at airbull did with theirs above, the White version. I would make the entire back a sold piece giving it more rigidity and strength kind of like my steel version.

For the record, I have two stocks, when my first one broke I did some testing on the slotted tongue. Its very strong, stronger then I think people give it credit. How much you ask? 40 LBS of force or a 20Kg weight I figure you still wouldn't believe me. So, I decided to take a photo a few minutes ago.



Steel beats Plastic in this case, promise. Yes, gun falling from a height of 4 feet on it's own because you forget to put the pin in the front guard. Perfectly fine!! Gun falling and 180-145 pound person landing on it, probably not fine. However, I haven't had the issue of falling on my gun... Yet..

[ThunderCactus]

Are you SURE that's 40lbs? looks like a 20... unless you have huge hands

gently lifting 40lbs is one thing
20lbs of shock force is something entirely different

Did you know that if you have a stubborn hex head cap screw that just won't come out,
you can apply 65ft-lbs of force on that little guy and strip the head, and it will not have broken the force of friction holding it in place.
If you come at that screw with a different approach, like an impact wrench, just apply short bursts of 20-30ft-lbs and you'll break it loose without damaging the head.

When you fall on the gun, it's not going to be gradually applied force, it'll be shock force.
And either way, if you used a BETTER plastic, it would be much stronger and you wouldn't have to worry about it breaking the body lol

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Are you SURE that's 40lbs? looks like a 20... unless you have huge hands

gently lifting 40lbs is one thing
20lbs of shock force is something entirely different

Did you know that if you have a stubborn hex head cap screw that just won't come out,
you can apply 65ft-lbs of force on that little guy and strip the head, and it will not have broken the force of friction holding it in place.
If you come at that screw with a different approach, like an impact wrench, just apply short bursts of 20-30ft-lbs and you'll break it loose without damaging the head.

When you fall on the gun, it's not going to be gradually applied force, it'll be shock force.
And either way, if you used a BETTER plastic, it would be much stronger and you wouldn't have to worry about it breaking the body lol

Did you know flywheels are bolted down to almost 185lbs of torque and it's a bitch to do that by hand. Here we are again going in another direction, with another topic.. that should have been in another thread, on another forum.

Ok, here we go again. There is no one way to do a job, craft is what you make it. If you can't, well in today's world they have machinery that can, but it's still black smithing. As nut and bolts are too an assembly's. Just because there (is) "a better way to do things." doesn't mean that's the only way to do that thing. I mean its Precision made, Hammer fit. Right? We can make the bearing have 0.00001" of tolerance and it still needs to be set in place with hammer. We also know that grease fits up to 0.0001" before its just smeared out of the way with a compound applicator, and any microscopic residue left behind will literally be burned by the heat of friction and do nothing.

So for the last time,dearest Cactus. I am going to say this...















"I know.."

If I don't know, I will ask... or start the thread with a question and finish that sentence with a "?".

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by fireballpt

Hello all,

I've taken the time to read all the posts and I must say Bandit50 that in this case the latch being steel does offer a better resistance but that means that in case of you leaving your replica fall to the ground or like me trip in a branch and fall down on the ground with the replica under you, it may break on the upper receiver side and so much more difficult to fix.

I think is better that you have a part that you know is cheaper to replace. And I took the time to enhance the latch design to be more resistant.


I have yet again added the part to the Shapeways store. You can find it here
in black and in white plastic versions. It's not dirty cheap but can be an alternative to someone that don't have access to a new stock or Airsoft stores nearby.

I couldn't agree more, sadly we do not have a 100% steady supply of these components. However, I am trying to work on that, by connecting the dots so to speak. That way we do have a reliable manufacture to produce replacement parts, I mean the solution is already out there, it's just so hard to obtain, and isn't being made by the 100's.

Which IMO, Cybergun and A&K should be responsible for producing but won't.

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Instead of just discussing it on this forum, there are many aftermarket companies that are capable of producing this latch that it is an easily broken part. I doubt they know about your needs and even read these threads.

Being plastic is actually good, but better plastic is needed. You know airsoft stuff from China is probably uses the cheapest plastic and pot metal just to make money. After all it is just a working replica gun with zero warranty.

Exactly, but anyone in manufacturing knew that. Which is why I made mine out of steel because steel is strong, heck a Canadian Blue box is stronger, even wood...but nothing gives me more confidence then steel

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by Bandit50

I mean its Precision made, Hammer fit. Right? We can make the bearing have 0.00001" of tolerance and it still needs to be set in place with hammer. We also know that grease fits up to 0.0001" before its just smeared out of the way with a compound applicator, and any microscopic residue left behind will literally be burned by the heat of friction and do nothing.

Very nice restoration. I've helped my friend's dad out with 2 of his challengers and 2 cuda's. Tough work, sheet metal sucks to work with especially when you're making body panels from scratch lol

I just rebuilt a live tooling drive on a ~$300,000 lathe a few weeks ago. It uses all very high precision (and very expensive) bearings.
There's a science to where they're positioned, what type of bearing is used, how much and what kind of grease is used in the bearings, and especially how they're mounted.
You find it odd we hammer on high precision bearings, but there's no shock trauma to the races or balls when we tap a bearing onto a shaft. Especially if you're doing it right and heat the bearing to just slip it onto the shaft.
$4,000 worth of 9 bearings, you get one backwards, hammer one on an outside race when you should have hit the inside race, don't squish the angular bearings together just right, or use the wrong grease, and it's the difference between 8 years of trouble free running and a breakdown after just 2 weeks.
I know it's difficult to believe, but the grease really does circulate in the bearings, and too much grease will actually cause them to burn out faster.
Under normal operation, it doesn't get burned out unless something else has already failed. Most common in my industry is washout; a seal fails and machine coolant washes the grease out of the bearings and they eventually overheat from lack of lubricity and burn out.
All those big industrial lathes and milling machines mainly use grease packed bearings in their spindles. It's only when they do high rpm that they use constant flow air/oil lubrication.

And the higher precision/faster the bearing, the easier it is to wreck from mechanical shock. With 30,000rpm spindles, you crash that thing once and you need a new spindle.
Vehicles use tougher, low rpm bearings and the suspension takes a lot of the impact, that's why we don't have to replace wheel bearings every 2 weeks in winnipeg lol

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Very nice restoration. I've helped my friend's dad out with 2 of his challengers and 2 cuda's. Tough work, sheet metal sucks to work with especially when you're making body panels from scratch lol

I just rebuilt a live tooling drive on a ~$300,000 lathe a few weeks ago. It uses all very high precision (and very expensive) bearings.
There's a science to where they're positioned, what type of bearing is used, how much and what kind of grease is used in the bearings, and especially how they're mounted.
You find it odd we hammer on high precision bearings, but there's no shock trauma to the races or balls when we tap a bearing onto a shaft. Especially if you're doing it right and heat the bearing to just slip it onto the shaft.
$4,000 worth of 9 bearings, you get one backwards, hammer one on an outside race when you should have hit the inside race, don't squish the angular bearings together just right, or use the wrong grease, and it's the difference between 8 years of trouble free running and a breakdown after just 2 weeks.
I know it's difficult to believe, but the grease really does circulate in the bearings, and too much grease will actually cause them to burn out faster.
Under normal operation, it doesn't get burned out unless something else has already failed. Most common in my industry is washout; a seal fails and machine coolant washes the grease out of the bearings and they eventually overheat from lack of lubricity and burn out.
All those big industrial lathes and milling machines mainly use grease packed bearings in their spindles. It's only when they do high rpm that they use constant flow air/oil lubrication.

And the higher precision/faster the bearing, the easier it is to wreck from mechanical shock. With 30,000rpm spindles, you crash that thing once and you need a new spindle.
Vehicles use tougher, low rpm bearings and the suspension takes a lot of the impact, that's why we don't have to replace wheel bearings every 2 weeks in winnipeg lol

Or freeze the shaft on one cold December day just put it on a pallet and bring it outside for 40-60 minutes , but I know time is money, and well a rubber mallet is sometimes the only way. So I completely hear you

and to finish of this thread and small repair work, I finally have the last piece made out of steel for my Masada.


I hope you all enjoy.



This last piece which broke at my local season opener is none other then the Slide release on the bottom of the gun. This piece again is more or less like the other other above, and i believe A&K, along with cyber gun should produce replacements for both of these parts, sadly that may not be the case.

Something else I was trying to show case with these small sized repairs. Is you don't need to have hundreds and thousand dollar pieces of equipment. Sometimes all you need is some creativity, some great planning, the basic tools, like a welder, file just to name a couple and you can make a replacement that will last years to come.

[Drake]

Great job!

Cactus is right on one point though, that's a 20lbs weight not 20kg. I know, I own the same set

[Bandit50]

Originally Posted by Drake

Great job!

Cactus is right on one point though, that's a 20lbs weight not 20kg. I know, I own the same set

20lbs is more then enough for what I intend for it to sustain, anything else is more then manufactures thought it would take. and thanks you for the words of encouragement.