Fight club custom

[wildcard]

For those who have no idea who are FIGHT CLUB CUSTOM http://www.ptwcustom.com/, they are a small enthusiast and player based company that provide Systema PTW user with after market products such as motors, electronics control boards, barrels etc. To this date their products have won scores of fans around the world that have been frustrated by Systema lack of product inprovement in particular their motors. Although they have received some negative exposure, their products and Youtube videos have proven otherwise. I personally was quite skeptical about their mechbox, ECU and motors as I have a few that was already tuned by Tac and DTT but after a catastrophic failure on my PTWCQB-R I purchased a replacement from Systema I was not impressed not only did the upgrades sucked, the motor wound up burning itself out after a few mags, in frustration I purchased a 2.5 motor package direct from FCC, I was impressed the performance even outperforms my Tac/DTT tuned PTWM4 and especially my 2012 non evolution model. After getting rid of ALL my Systema PTW (from a 07/08 to 2012 non evolution M16 and M4) I plunged right in to their custom build rifle. It took quite a while to decide what kind of build, the back and forth communication with Lung at FCC was worth the wait, after that the comms with my PTW dealer Chris at DTT was even smoother. I decide to settle on their “rogue hunter” model with a few upgrades such as their Noveske NST rails and some Magpul goodness. I highly recommend Double Tap Tactical and FCC full custom rifle for those who wants no hassle, no issue performance out of your PTW they are worth every dollar!





This will be a point form review of my FCC PTW Custom Noveske 13"rifle ordered through Double Tap Tactical from Fight Club Custom from HK, this is rifle 1 out of 3 that was ordered and a second shorter upper was also ordered for this rifle arriving end of August. I will update this review every month.

Specs:

VELOCITY MUR CNC Upper Receiver
FCC CNC Lower Receiver (Noveske FFL)
FCC Selector Switch Board
FCC Mini Mosfet (Switch Device)
AK advanced CPU (3 burst/auto)
FCC CNC completed Gear Box SPEED
FCC Trigger,hammer,full auto sear pin& selector cap decoration set
Rampo's Complete PMAG-black
TROY ambi-Charging Handle
FCC Assist Knob Set
FCC NBUS2 SIGHT-BLACK
FCC NST TROY TRX 13" (Instead of TROY 13 “ rail)
FCC NOVESKE low profile Gas Block
FCC ASAP End Plate
FCC Troy Medival Flash Hider
FCC UBR Buff Stock
FCC MIAD GRIP (Black)
FCC completed tightbore inner barrel system 14.5”
FCC Blackout 300 Multi Barrel 14.5" (black)
FCC ShootingTeam Dust Cover set
FCC G2 2.5 motor (For Systema PTW use only)
CNC QD Pivot Pin Set (YH style) *for both PTW & GBB*
AK enhance Bolt Stop set (Wilson Combat)
FCC Troy Trigger Guard
FCC Troy Ambi-mag catch
AK BAD ASS Selector set
VELOCITY M135 Cylinder - 400fps w.20
VELOCITY M115 Cylinder - 374fps w.20
VELOCITY M90 Cylinder - 347fps w.20

First off the price I payed for the FCC is not much more than a BNIB 2012 Systema PTW with all bells and whistles in fact if I were to do the same it would have cost me an extra grand

Positive points
- Full moisture proof
- quality build, construction/assembly, QC and packaging, top notch CNC work on every part that goes into the mechbox
- high quality custom in house built parts
- Factory tested and distributor tested for any performance issue before arriving to my hands
- light weight compared to a Prime body PTW of the same length
- faster, quieter and cooler operating temp performance from the 2.5motor compared to the 2012 Systema motor
- Tri burst and full auto function
- Mini ECU allowing you to use 15C LiPo without damaging the ECU
- Full no hassle customer info assistance through website, facebook, forums and emails with distributor and tech support
- crisp trigger response, better than a stock PTW
- light weight CNC body not as heavy as Prime but very clean, crisp and amazing finish I would have bought more of their body if i have any Systema PTW left
- upcoming new products such as their rumored ANGEL KING TW system (AK PTW for those AK fans)

Bad points
- Limited supply, due to the popularity of their products you may have to wait a few weeks or months for custom rifle
- Small operation compared to Systema
- Price, maybe a bit expensive for some



UPDATE 1Longevity test 1 August 20th, 2012Loaded up ALL 24 Sytema mags and 18 FCC Vanaras based mags, PTW powered by Hot power 11.1V 1300mah 15C LiPo, King Arms 11.1V 1100mah 15C and airsoftparts 7.4V 1300mah 20C, M115, M135 Cylinder

- consistent 388-387fps with bastard .25 with the red Systema cylinder I’m suspecting the minor loss in fps was due to the longer inner barrel
- M115 cylinder with .20 = 365fps w.20bb bastard
- M135 cylinder with .20 = 395fps-392fps w.20bb bastard
- M95 cylinder with .20 = 339fps-335fps w.20bb bastard
- very consistent bullseye at 50ft
- Motor seemed to get smoother after 4 mags
- after nonstop firing all 42 mags with the exception of reloading mags the motor is a bit warm but not as warm as a 2012 Systema (1mag semi then 1 mag at triburst and auto)
- 11.1 LiPo needs to be changed after when I did a continous 27 mag triburst dump (alarm went off) it may last a lot longer if you do single shot
- No misfeeds no misfire after alternate switching modes
- need to file some very sharp edges from the NST rails
- No visible wear on the mechbox, gears or piston, all gears allignment are still centered and no excess grease visible
- Low voltage protection is a big plus for guys like me it allow me to run 7.4V LiPo without worries

A normal PTW can't do this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQoTD...eature=g-all-u
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xzEm...eature=g-all-u
FCC Advanced CPU for Systema PTW (3 burst) - YouTube

Pictures to follow

UPDATE 2 - September 20th, 2012
- Finished another set of testing plus a complete day of gaming (another combined 16bags of bastards .25), a few in sets in the rain with no issue or stopage, motor is running like butter
- Tried the new 11.1 1100mah batteries from elite airsoft they fit the buffer tub better
- a few more FCC parts installed for my NST rail
- a short upper coming soon

UPDATE 3 - September 22nd, 2012- received the 9"upper from DTT
- great finish, the new MUR upper is even nicer than the original
- gamed with it using the M90 cylinder, shoots 347fps with the Noveske firepig the sound is scary especially at full auto
- due to the shorter inner barrel distance is not as much as the 14" barrel 50-60ft and the spread is a lot larger at the end not as tight as the longer barrel
- finish and fitting are top notch no issue or misallignment

NEXT UP - FCC HK416D full build

[m102404]

Having seen and shot it I'm very impressed by the build. Very solid/consistent performance. The hopup application is just deadly.

I'm looking around for a backup/extra PTW and might go this route. I did not like the buzz (not so much as a noise as it was a feel in the hand) with the motor. It might smooth in a bit but it was very pronounced.

I can't help but shake the feeling that 2 out of 3 of your batteries are underpowered for the system. I've seen on their facebook page how they recommend a 11.1/15C. Your batteries are putting out 16.1-26A in the best conditions. I know the PTW electronics need 30A per shot, every shot...or you risk failure. Even if they've optimized the electronics/motor I can't see it being below 20A...but who knows.

From the close ups of their hopup mod...I still prefer my own mod It does look a whole lot better than the stock hopup though.

I wouldn't go with all the bells and whistles but rather a plain build.

All that said and done I'd be hard pressed though to just get a 2012 SCK and a full set of boards and motors from FCC...then mod the rest myself.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by m102404

Having seen and shot it I'm very impressed by the build. Very solid/consistent performance. The hopup application is just deadly.

I'm looking around for a backup/extra PTW and might go this route. I did not like the buzz (not so much as a noise as it was a feel in the hand) with the motor. It might smooth in a bit but it was very pronounced.

I can't help but shake the feeling that 2 out of 3 of your batteries are underpowered for the system. I've seen on their facebook page how they recommend a 11.1/15C. Your batteries are putting out 16.1-26A in the best conditions. I know the PTW electronics need 30A per shot, every shot...or you risk failure. Even if they've optimized the electronics/motor I can't see it being below 20A...but who knows.

From the close ups of their hopup mod...I still prefer my own mod It does look a whole lot better than the stock hopup though.

I wouldn't go with all the bells and whistles but rather a plain build.

All that said and done I'd be hard pressed though to just get a 2012 SCK and a full set of boards and motors from FCC...then mod the rest myself.

I was thinking about doing it bit by bit, thats the reason for purchasing the 2012 M16A3 but in the end after mashing some numbers it's cheaper to go all out. that way no waiting around for Prime to get their ass moving and no bullshit of trying to make things work as they should be from Systema, it's just less frustrating this way, you pay a bit more but on the positive side things work as they are design to and should be out of the box. I was extremely dissapointed at Systema for both their 2012 evolution and non evolution models my M4 (Evolution series) failed after 7 mags, my BNIB 2012 non evolution even it wasn't gamed was not as smooth as the FCC engine even with the DTT motor mods, my personal opinion is that Systema or whom ever systema contarct out to build their motor really dropped the ball on the QC. The need to remedy something that is supposed to be perfect/the best out of the box pissed me off more than having to spend money to get it fixed in the first place. I'm confident that this FCC will last a whole hell lot longer than my other PTW.

[m102404]

I don't know what the price would be of a FCC set of boards and motor but it's at least as much as a Systema replacement set if not quite a bit more.

Myself, I wouldn't be interested in a different body/body kit, modded hopup/barrel, different furniture/etc....and in that case any increase in cost essentially amounts to pre-QC of the eletronics/motor/setup. That is valuable...but how valuable is the key.

When I get on a computer that's not so locked down I'll run through a parts list of what I'd want and see what it works out to.

Do you have an inside track with these guys to get a good price on things?

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by m102404

I don't know what the price would be of a FCC set of boards and motor but it's at least as much as a Systema replacement set if not quite a bit more.

Myself, I wouldn't be interested in a different body/body kit, modded hopup/barrel, different furniture/etc....and in that case any increase in cost essentially amounts to pre-QC of the eletronics/motor/setup. That is valuable...but how valuable is the key.

When I get on a computer that's not so locked down I'll run through a parts list of what I'd want and see what it works out to.

Do you have an inside track with these guys to get a good price on things?

More or less the same as a Systema replacement parts and it works, the only difference is as you know the wiring on the Systema wiring is very fragile and if you fucked it up you need a new board with the FCC the wiring is a lot more solid and in case you do fuck it up you can purchase it seperately.

Chris at Double Tap Tactical is the distributor for FCC here in Canada if not go to FCC Direct I dealt with Lung the prices are about the same not much of a mark up by DTT. For me is less hassle, no dealings with CBSA or other BS.

I can tell you that their EL001 and 002 boards are awesome they work like they are supposed to and they will work on 11.1V 15C LiPo without causing malfunction unlike the systema version.

[m102404]

So Chris is the guy to deal with at DTT?

If you're basically paying for QC and a replaceable wiring harness that's cool...I'll check out how much I can get that for. From what I've found out these are supposed to be work in 2008+ bodies...any word on that? It'd be cheaper to find a used base gun...especially if all I really want from it are the parts that don't break.

Keep quoting me you phucker!!

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by m102404

So Chris is the guy to deal with at DTT?

If you're basically paying for QC and a replaceable wiring harness that's cool...I'll check out how much I can get that for. From what I've found out these are supposed to be work in 2008+ bodies...any word on that? It'd be cheaper to find a used base gun...especially if all I really want from it are the parts that don't break.

Keep quoting me you phucker!!

they will work on PTW and CTW platform the first one i did was on my 07 M4 infact i still have it here the only thing that is still Systema is the lower body and the stock, currently this is my back up in case the FCC or the TW5 fail. There is a guy name Francis from their facebook page he currently just completely replaced his failed 2012 Evolution motor with the complete FCC internals

[mcguyver]

I have had some issues with their motor. I installed one last week to replace a 2012 motor, and the brush leads were routed on the left side of the brush hoods. If this is not rectified, the motor will stop when the last of the brushes is worn down, but prior to that the commutator will be arc damaged.

Secondly, the finish work on the brush hoods was horrid. Lots of extra material which exceeded the endbell and lead to a nearly impossible installation of the grip and a very difficult removal of the grip. And this was the supposedly wider 2012 grip. The only solution is to tear down the motor and grind down the brush hoods and the insulators, I would not recommend doing it while they are installed on the motor.

Longevity is too early to tell, but it was way noisier than a Systema motor with a rewound armature.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I have had some issues with their motor. I installed one last week to replace a 2012 motor, and the brush leads were routed on the left side of the brush hoods. If this is not rectified, the motor will stop when the last of the brushes is worn down, but prior to that the commutator will be arc damaged.

Secondly, the finish work on the brush hoods was horrid. Lots of extra material which exceeded the endbell and lead to a nearly impossible installation of the grip and a very difficult removal of the grip. And this was the supposedly wider 2012 grip. The only solution is to tear down the motor and grind down the brush hoods and the insulators, I would not recommend doing it while they are installed on the motor.

Longevity is too early to tell, but it was way noisier than a Systema motor with a rewound armature.

Agreed on the noise part I even send them an email about it, their response was that since the 2.0/2.5 motor is stronger than a stock Systema it will have a louder noise emiting from the motor but they assured me that it is normal and it should quiet down a bit after some use and mine did smoother after about 4 - 6 mags worth of shooting and progressively quieter than when it was BNIB, I couldn't confirm on the brush hoods as mine was already came installed, however I did hear some issues with their 2.0 motor being a pain in the ass to installed. Mine is a newer 2.5 motor, there have been other issues with their 2.0 similar to those from Systema, this was documented and rectified with their 2.5 the only thing I miss when comparing their newer stuff vs the Tac/DTT motor is the buzzing as it is a stronger motor than stock.

Brad, the FCC motor did operate better than the stock 2012 it was a lot cooler even after repeated firing. now since you have more knowledge to this than anyone here, I happen to have a spare 2.5 motor from FCC that I don't mind contributing to you if you are willing to run a comparison test between the modded Tac motor/DTT/Systema stock. I love to see the difference as for normal guy like me aside from the different color and sound, they all looked the same. currently I have teh DTT motor mods on my TW5 and I have the Tac 490 motor leftover from my M4 upgrades to FCC

[mcguyver]

I did a torture test on a 2009 490 with one of Tack's rewound armatures at Battlefied in July. I put through about 6000 rounds on an M130 with the 9.6v Systema battery, which is arguably the toughest cylinder/voltage combo you can drive with a PTW. I still got about 2500 rounds per battery, which is expected, and considering the batteries are a minimum of 4 years old, not bad.

I ran 5000 rounds of this through the gun within the first 2 hours in semi, and at times the grip was so warm that it was uncomfortable to hold. And the entire time the motor ran like a champ, and a fellow player commented how my gun was so much quieter than his 2012, which packed it in later that game. He was the one with the FCC motor that I installed, and apparently it ran fine all last weekend. But his was the 2.5, or so I have been told, I don't remember what was wrote on it.

I work on motors for a living, and in my experience, noisy has never been good or normal. It usually results in a service call for me.

I look forward to building an FCC gun is winter, we'll seee what Chris comes up with, but that 7.5" Diplomat looks kinky.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I did a torture test on a 2009 490 with one of Tack's rewound armatures at Battlefied in July. I put through about 6000 rounds on an M130 with the 9.6v Systema battery, which is arguably the toughest cylinder/voltage combo you can drive with a PTW. I still got about 2500 rounds per battery, which is expected, and considering the batteries are a minimum of 4 years old, not bad.

I ran 5000 rounds of this through the gun within the first 2 hours in semi, and at times the grip was so warm that it was uncomfortable to hold. And the entire time the motor ran like a champ, and a fellow player commented how my gun was so much quieter than his 2012, which packed it in later that game. He was the one with the FCC motor that I installed, and apparently it ran fine all last weekend. But his was the 2.5, or so I have been told, I don't remember what was wrote on it.

I work on motors for a living, and in my experience, noisy has never been good or normal. It usually results in a service call for me.

I look forward to building an FCC gun is winter, we'll seee what Chris comes up with, but that 7.5" Diplomat looks kinky.

Mine ran warm too but not as warm as my Evolution motor which failed after 7 mags, we reattached the connectors but it still wont run, i was actually looking forward to new Systema Evolution stuff but after being miserably dissapointed again I think I'll keep to the FCC stuff. now here is an interesting bit after Tyson mention the buzz feeling on his hands I swapped my grips to a normal Systema OEM grip from the magpul MiAD. the so called buzzing is gone and the sound emited sounded like a normal PTW

[mcguyver]

I have a MIAD on my gun and the fellow with the 2012 had the factory grip. My grip is solid and uses the 4 screws, not everyone who does the MIAD does that.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I have a MIAD on my gun and the fellow with the 2012 had the factory grip. My grip is solid and uses the 4 screws, not everyone who does the MIAD does that.

My grip use the 4 screws too, it's quite solid but not as thick as a OEM Systema grips.

On another note I shoot the gun last night with the M90 cylinder it was way more silent than the other two. The M90 cylinder make it actually sounded more like my TW5 the snappy twang when I use the heavier cylinder is gone,
my guess would be the combination of the lightweight body and light weight CNC parts through out the TW, low density polymer on the grips and heavy spring have a lot to do with how the vibrations/sounds being emitted from the TW

[Karma_]

The biggest difference between FCC and Systema is customer support. FCC is wayyy ahead of Systema in that regard. They offer warranty on their motors too.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Karma_

The biggest difference between FCC and Systema is customer support. FCC is wayyy ahead of Systema in that regard. They offer warranty on their motors too.

From the Systema forum....their CS is great until they really screw up and owe you chunk of money.

I have FCC motor, its way lower than unwound and rewounded motor.