Threats from across the border!

[infernau]

In the state of California a bill, SB798, may get passed making it law to have all airsoft guns be brightly colored or clear.

Some of you may think, it's too far to affect us but you couldn't be more wrong.
People, higher ups, that are against airsoft look for these kind of things to strengthen their views on our sport. It's important that all airsofters, no matter what country you're from, get involved and make your voice heard.

I've already sent the Californian Governor an email regarding this bill, it was well written and emphasized the actions of denying many responsible people the right to this great sports just to penalize a few irresponsible players.

This is what I wrote, I know we have lawyers and the like in the community so please jump in and help your fellow airsofters around the world and let your voice be heard.

I'm a Canadian airsofter and I was just recently made aware of a bill, SB798 to be exact, that the state of California plans on passing regarding airsoft guns being brightly colored or clear due to the actions of select few individuals that do not have the support of the airsoft community. These individuals are a mere 1% or less of individuals who handle their airsoft guns in a disrespectful and harmful manner, I urge you to not take actions against all players because of the actions of a select few.

Sebastien Cote, Barrie, ON

[Conker]

Soldier Systems ran an article on that.

Here's the comment I made on there:

Yet another law that misses the point an only bothers law-abiding citizens…
Law-abiding citizens buying them for collection or airsoft/milsim will follow the law, criminals using them for robberies will just get the clear ones and paint them or simply buy out of the state.

And this will also cost a couple thousand jobs, as California has probably highest number of airsoft stores in the US plus the many airsoft-only fields or the paintball/airsoft fields that will see much less players because, as the editor said, there’s no point in milsim with bright pink guns…

California is getting almost worse on guns than Canada – that’s saying a lot.

[jordan7831]

Airsoft GI has this lovely piece written:

"Subject: California Senate Bill 798 / 2011


Dear Sir:


Please support the WITHDRAW SB 798, the bill proposed by Senator De Leon. It has the potential of causing all airsoft guns to be colored blaze red, bright blue, bright green, or clear. These are the same colors currently required for toy guns in California, and will have the effect of causing people to believe these are toys. Airsoft guns are not toys, and should not give the impression by their color that they are. If they are the same colors as toys, parents will be less likely to supervise their use, and children less likely to use the correct safety precautions that they normally would with using an orange tipped airsoft gun in black. This bill will cause MORE injuries and potential harm than the current law and federal regulations for imitation firearms. Please leave the current regulations as they are. Airsoft has had a remarkably safe history. Please do not change this good record now by pushing a bill which was considered 6 years ago, and rejected by the Attorney General of California for the above reason. Please encourage Senator De Leon to retract the bill.


Sincerely,"

[Shatter]

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums...?topic=99817.0

[CR0M]

I was recently talking about this bill with a friend of mine and after lots of discussion its kinda hard to argue against it when you weigh the pros vs cons...

sure, I dont want to play airsoft with some pink or light blue gun, but at what cost? for our personal enjoyment? because games are more fun when the guns look real?

its hard to argue against that...

and the points such as: its going to be hard to tell the difference between toy guns and airsoft guns and being unsafe for kids is a real stretch...

1. where are kids getting these guns from when you have to be over 18 to purchase them?

2. if a parent is so neglectful that they dont pay attention to something like a airsoft gun in a kids toybox then airsoft is the least of that kids problems growing up...

I want to argue for airsoft, Im just having a hard time... help me out on this one...

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by CR0M

I was recently talking about this bill with a friend of mine and after lots of discussion its kinda hard to argue against it when you weigh the pros vs cons...

sure, I dont want to play airsoft with some pink or light blue gun, but at what cost? for our personal enjoyment? because games are more fun when the guns look real?

its hard to argue against that...

and the points such as: its going to be hard to tell the difference between toy guns and airsoft guns and being unsafe for kids is a real stretch...

1. where are kids getting these guns from when you have to be over 18 to purchase them?

2. if a parent is so neglectful that they dont pay attention to something like a airsoft gun in a kids toybox then airsoft is the least of that kids problems growing up...

I want to argue for airsoft, Im just having a hard time... help me out on this one...

Because it's another ignorant law that punishes only the law abiding and does nothing to address any issue whereby people might be using airsoft to commit crimes. If people are willing to paint over/remove orange tips to commit crime then they will be willing to paint over a pink gun to commit crime. Period.

This law does nothing but make frightened people feel slightly placated and damage business and the enjoyment of honest people and as such as no social merit.

Did that help you understand?

A law that MIGHT work would be stiffer penalties for people caught using airsoft in the commission of a crime, if people start getting long sentences and hard labour (which is sorely missing from modern criminal justice) for these crimes it could have a deterring factor. Again this depends on the notion that desperate / criminal minded people would consider the repercussions of their actions.

[L473ncy]

Simple rebuttal if someone grabs for something hidden in a police confrontation do you think they're going to check it out or shoot to neutralize what is a perceived threat?

You could easily be shot for pulling out a banana from your coat pocket if the situation is tense and police are on high alert. And bananas last time I checked (if they're still fresh) are yellow or yellow and slightly green. It's not like the officer is going to be like "oh hes pulling out something yellow, it must be a banana". If it's even remotely gun shaped they will see it as a threat and neutralize the target.

Really this is more of a reactive solution than a proactive solution. And I'm a fan of being proactive and nipping small problems in the bud before they become a bigger problem over a reactive knee jerk solution.

EDIT: Note that this all came about as a result of some fecking 13 year old who was shot by police and the media and parents and stuff QQ'ing about it then lobbying for shit.

[Rugger_can]

Blueicide is not something you can solve. Period. People making the judgment call to attempt to force police into killing them is something that if police where to delay their reaction even a milisecond then it puts honest officers lives at risk, which is unacceptable. And I consider anyone brandishing a firearm like object infront of police as self destructive behavior.

[voorhees -FWA-]

I may not agree with a lot the CBSA has to say about airsoft, but I strongly agree with this;

Originally Posted by CBSA MEMORANDUM D19-13-2

53 (d) colour (e.g., orange tip, pink or blue colours). Real
firearms can come in designer colours and/or with
painted tips.

I don't think we have to worry...

[CR0M]

I dont think a stricter law for people using airsoft guns in crimes is even a second guess in a criminals mind...

I just want to know something very simple here... the jobs, the money, california... all that aside...

are you against this bill because you dont want to play with a neon coloured gun? because thats what it all boils down to...

its not about whats fair, or irresponsible people ruining it for all us... its about changing the colour of our guns to look less real...

thats where I have the hard time defending, my personal enjoyment vs the peace of mind of the whole

[voorhees -FWA-]

...sorry for the double post - but I figured I may as well post the entire section of that memo..

Originally Posted by CBSA MEMORANDUM D19-13-2

53. The following are additional inferences that could be
made to suggest a device to be considered a replica firearm.
They are not in themselves necessary considerations for a
replica firearm determination:
(a) weight (whether it does feel realistic in weight or
whether it is considered “too light�);
(b) fabrication materials (whether it is fabricated in
metal, plastic or any other type of casting). For
example: some handguns (e.g., GLOCK pistols) are
polymer-framed and/or use other non-metallic
composites;
(c) whether the parts move or are in a “functioning
state� (e.g., slides moving back and forth, cylinder
rotating in a model revolver, etc.);
(d) colour (e.g., orange tip, pink or blue colours). Real
firearms can come in designer colours and/or with
painted tips.

[Shirley]

Business goes down. Airsoft manufactures will sell to who? Their own country?

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by CR0M

I dont think a stricter law for people using airsoft guns in crimes is even a second guess in a criminals mind...

I just want to know something very simple here... the jobs, the money, california... all that aside...

are you against this bill because you dont want to play with a neon coloured gun? because thats what it all boils down to...

its not about whats fair, or irresponsible people ruining it for all us... its about changing the colour of our guns to look less real...

thats where I have the hard time defending, my personal enjoyment vs the peace of mind of the whole

Infringing on the enjoyment of others for irrational peace of mind is not a worthy trade off. Your casual dismissal of addressing the root of the issue speaks volumes of your through process, although it may or may not work it at least attacks the problem in a way that will actually effect people whom violate the laws as oppose to effecting people who would abide by the law.

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Business goes down. Airsoft manufactures will sell to who? Their own country?

I was referring to potential loss of sales in Retail environments within California. Guns being bright pink might (or might not) turn off some customers.

[Conker]

@CR0M:

Why it's BS?
- Criminals can paint their guns in any of these bright colors to reduce the likeliness of getting shot themselves. There has been robberies where real guns had orange tips.

- When you're living in CA, it's veeeery easy to travel 45mins to get into Arizona and buy your airsoft guns.

- The point of airsoft over paintball is at least 75% (varies depending on the individual) because of the realism. Bright colors takes it out.

- Cant be painted on - just like here kids buy clearsoft and paint them over... oh yes, kids should't do that. But they still do it anyway. Will it be the same in California? Yes.
Same for robbers. They'll just buy the clear one + krylon for 5 bucks more, and voilÃ*.

- It will cost many jobs. California has probably highest number of airsoft stores in the US plus the many airsoft-only fields or the paintball/airsoft fields that will see much less players because of the now total lack of any kind of realism

And again - CRIMINALS DON'T FOLLOW THE F!CKING LAW. If they go as far as robbing a store... do you really think that painting a clearsoft will give them a second though? I don't think so. They'll just paint their clearsoft and rob more people.

These are the first things that came to my mind I'm sure I could find many more.

Originally Posted by CR0M

thats where I have the hard time defending, my personal enjoyment vs the peace of mind of the whole

I don't have any such problem. Peace of mind? It's not my problem if someone else is irrationally afraid of something they don't understand.

Of course, I own guns, so this kind of bullshit is just more of the same.

"They" say "I would FEEL better" if those were illegal.

I say "They haven't hurt you yet, what makes you think they ever will?"

And lastly, I'm a FIRM believier in natural selection. Given the constraints on our society today, about the only way we have left to weed out the fucking stupid and keep them from breeding is by letting them remove themselves from the gene pool.