Getting into GBBR opinions wanted

[dirtdiver]

Alright guys I've been watching the growing number of GBBR's and I've been tempted a few times and I'm going to take the plunge.

My question is which systems do you prefer and why?

I've read alot of helpful threads by m102404 and kulwarrior and others and I've narrowed it down between the King Arms M7A1, the g&p woc, and the WE. CQBR. Now much of what was discussed was far over my head but I feel I have a bit of a basic understanding of some of he differences, strengths and weaknesses of each... But I'm looking for a dumbed down explanation for these and any recommendations on which is the best choice.

I've also read abit on gasguns.info and understand that the KA and g&p are based on the Magna system where the WE is a modified internal escort system....
I also understand that whichever model is chosen an NPAS will be necessary as well possibly a new steel bolt and possibly some other steel parts ie: trigger assembly's and sears and whatnot...

So any help you guys can provide will be SUPER appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Cheers
Dirtdiver

[Strelok]

Just curious, Any particular reason why there isn't a KJW M4a1 on that list?

[m102404]

Dirty...

Here it is without posting one of my walls of text.

Get the WE M4.

- mags are cheaper and work
- parts are dirt cheap and easy to get
- rifle is easy to work on and maintain
- for GBBRs, essentially everyone else you'll be shooting with is running one.

Or...alternatively a WE PDW. They're solid running shooters too.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by m102404

Dirty...

Here it is without posting one of my walls of text.

Get the WE M4.

- mags are cheaper and work
- parts are dirt cheap and easy to get
- rifle is easy to work on and maintain
- for GBBRs, essentially everyone else you'll be shooting with is running one.

Or...alternatively a WE PDW. They're solid running shooters too.

+1

Although I may have a bias, there is a reason that WE gbbrs have been doing do well. They are affordable, easy to maintan parts are easily replaced, and they are just solid guns.

@dirtdiver

Are there any specific questions you have about what you are looking for in a gbbr? That may help you.

[dirtdiver]

I considered the KJW but I've heard that mags are hard to find and so are replacement parts as well as the fact that the thermomold mags are a bit bulkier, although I have heard they are the best for lack of cool-down and lack of leaks...

Thanks Tys looks like it's a WE for me... Should I wait for the open bolt that is supposedly coming out this month? What is the benefit of this over the closed bolt? Also does the WE run positive pressure or negative? Again I don't fully understand all of this but it was things I've seen on various discussions.

Thanks for the advice

[Eeyore]

Both the open and vlosed bolt systems have their advantages. If you are not in a huge hurry I suggest waiting until the new open bolt ARs have been released. That way you can get an idea from a review and still have the option of getting a closed bolt system while they are still available.

WE guns use an Npas (Negative Pressure System)

[m102404]

Brass tube (aka original system...aka closed bolt) and open bolt use different top seals and feed lips for the mags. Otherwise the mags are the same. Coversion kits for mags are dirt cheap. The bolt is different...otherwise (I think) the rest of the rifle is the same. Can't interchange the two mags (i.e. for sharing/etc...)

Up to you. I don't doubt that they'll all be open bolt eventually. The only reason the guys around here have the brass tube ones is that a lot of them were early adopters and that's what it was.

I haven't seen the adjustable valve for the open bolt system. The brass tube version is a Negative Pressure Air System.

WA/G&P systems are Positive Pressure systems. The WA/G&P & Co systems are MUCH more realistic in all the bits and pieces. So from a builders perspective, it's sweet. Getting good mags is a PITA and they're $90+ each. Heavy too.

Both systems obviously work...just two ways to go about the same thing. Personally I think that the NPAS system is simpler (less parts/pins/bits). TM Hicapa's and 226's are NPAS systems if you want to imagine the nozzle/floating valve assembly.

Guys swear by the KJW...haven't fairly spent a lot of time with it myself. The way that some parts return is a little goofy for me (Amos doesn't like it when someone says there's an elastic band in it ). And I'm personally not a fan of the thermold mags...they're big and I just don't like the looks of it. I think there's just one or two guys around here that shoot it.

[MilanWG]

I had a G&P WOC GBBR first - was a total pain the in the ass.
Worked 10% of the time, 90% of the time I was fixing something.

I went with the WE M4 GBBR C02 gen. III and it has been fantastic!

I highly recommend the WE M4 - just buy a replacement #66 steel part and install a RATECH NPAS and your golden.

[onemenace]

Originally Posted by m102404

Dirty...

Here it is without posting one of my walls of text.

Get the WE M4.

- mags are cheaper and work
- parts are dirt cheap and easy to get
- rifle is easy to work on and maintain
- for GBBRs, essentially everyone else you'll be shooting with is running one.

Or...alternatively a WE PDW. They're solid running shooters too.

I agree, I personally own 2 we m4's currently.

they are a big change from aegs charge load and go but I really wouldn't want to game anything else if your looking for milsim or a realistic shooting experience it doesn't get much better than we for a decent price.

[dirtdiver]

Thanks for taking the time to break it down for me you've all really helped make my decision easier! I'll definately be picking one of these up soon.

And don't worry I won't tell Amos about the rubber band bit...oops, lol.

I was basically torn between the KA and the WE but from everything I've read looks like WE is the way to go... The only reason I was hesitant wAs because I had a WE pistol a few years back and the thing was basically a paperweight, so I have stayed away from WE's since then. But from everything I've heard their rifles are in a whole different league when it comes to reliability and quality control...

Now the only question left is whether I should hold out for the open bolt or get the closed bolt.. Or get the closed and pick up the conversion kit...

Is there an actual performance difference between open and closed or is it just the closer to RS operation?

Again thanks guys for sharing your knowledge very helpful indeed.

[Disco_Dante]

The tm compatible hop up of the open bolt system gives it the upgradeability to be more accurate than the WE or stinger hop ups for the closed bolt system.

Anyone know when the open bolt M4's are due?

[burningashes]

The WE M4 is a solid gun but the mags can start leaking pretty badly. I found it very reliable once i replaced the o-rings and valve on the mags.

[MilanWG]

Don't compare the WE pistols to the GBBRs - they are in a different league.

I have nine WE M4 propane mags total and none of have yet to leak. Just keep them gased up full (10-15 seconds of propane) with a good amount of silicon oil to keep the o-rings lubed, etc.

Go with the WE M4 GBBR - you won't regret it

[Qlong]

I personally went from an AGM to a WOC then an INO, at that time I hated the WE for its unrealistic brass tube.

The AGM was well, I wouldn't say garbage out of the box, but.. yeah garbage out of the box. The material was similar to the first gen WE handguns, zinc/magnesium alloy, extremely soft and brittle, I could see myself replacing a number of parts within a month. I was fortunate it was new at the time so I didn't have a hard time reselling it.

The WOC, I could not for the life of me get it to run efficiently, when I did, the mags started leaking. It was an ass to seal them up again given the number of parts were used to to build them.

The INO was okay, a little better.

Eventually I went with the WE AWSS system, very little moving parts meant little wear and less replacement parts, which meant the magazine needed little to no maintenance.

In addition, the magazine had an external shell, meaning dropping the mag caused little structural damage, the WE mag is probably the most successful GBBR mag out there, it is cheap, easily disassembled and maintained. Justify that by counting how many aftermarket magazines are there out for the WE compared to the Magna system.

In my opinion, the Magna system has way too many aftermarket external parts modeled on different specs and dimensions, because AGM, WOC, INO, PRIME all have their proprietary designs and little is cross compatible.

Most, if not all the externals off the WE are modeled after real steel specifications, replace the worn alloy furniture with RS if you want. The internals are much more beginner friendly as the mechbox is drop in and affordable.

We also have an official Canadian distributor for WE.

[RacingManiac]

To be fair WA mags are the same if you keep them gassed up. The issue comes when you didn't do it and it is a PITA to work on WA mags...

I think as far as the hardware goes the WA guns are actually very simple to work on, as all of their disassembly are pretty RS-accurate and the billions of guides out there are applicable. The positive pressure bolt or the negative pressure bolt for the WA are interchangeable and there are proponents of both. And its also very simple to take the parts out and put back together. As far as different spec goes, they are not that different to working on GBB pistols. There are fitting work involved. My best running setup right now is a cobbled together gun with no base. And it runs nicer than my WOC-based one.