small problem: BOLTCATCH FAILS while firing empty mag (WE Scar)

[Riko]

Hi,

as the title says, I have a problem with my Boltcatch on my WE Scar.

When the mag is fully filled with gas + with bb's and I shoot it empty, at the end the boltcatch does not work after the last bb got out!
It keeps dryfiring. (although the button on the magazine is engaged to make it catch)
However, the boltcatch does work if I dryfire it vertically, so with the point of the gun aimed to the sky!
Here is just a picture to show when it works and when it doesnt work:


The bolt catch also works when a mag is first used and fully filled with gas, for the first 5-10 bb's.
After that last bb, it will engage, even in horizontal position. But after a bigger amount of bb's it wont work.
This seems like cool down effect on the bolt or something?

Little detail: I renewed the whole trigger assembly (you can buy it seperate as part #93)
http://www.tacticalquartermaster.co....f8fe90ccba8910
Since than I had the boltcatch problem....before that with my faulty trigger assembly the bolt catch worked perfectly....

But how does this come that after emptying a full magazine in horizontal position, the catch wont engage?
Is the new trigger holding the bolt back somehow preventing it to go back fully? So does it have to be worn in?
(I've shot already like 15 - 20 magazines with the new trigger assembly...)

And does cool down effect also play a role?
As I said, after only 5-7 bb's for the first time, the catch does work.
But after more than that, it seems to work only vertically aimed.
Temp is around 15-17°C I think, so quite cold.


thx all!
Riko

[audi_bhoy]

Is this happening with more than one mag? I don't know much about WE's, but my KJW has a pin just under the hammer that triggers the gas valve on the magazine, and that part makes the bolt catch engage. If it sticks in, it won't engage properly. Maybe a little drop of oil on it would help it.

[Riko]

jep it happens with all my mags, I have 3 mags.

At the beginning of each fresh and full mag it shoots perfect. But from after 15 bb's or so, the bolt catch wont engage....its like they have an issue with cool down.
May I remember to the fact its about 15 °C where I shoot .....(maybe even slightly less)

Because when I shoot a fresh new magazine from the start, its perfect, but after some bb's it wont catch. Than I get a 2nd new fresh mag, and it works perfect again.
When that 2nd mag causes the bolt catch not to engage, I take my 3rd and last mag, and its again perfect for the first couple of bb's I fill, untill after a while it wont catch either....

I will try tomorow with my only Co2 magazine, since Co2 is not sensitive with low temps right?
So IF its a cool down issue that causes the bolt catch not to engage, it should work with my co2 mag I assume....?

[burningashes]

Check the pin holding the bolt catch in place. If it is missing or coming out, then theres your problem.

[Riko]

lol what pin? the bolt catch on the we scar are just 2 pieces of metal + a little spring.
Its a simple design and it looks normal...



I actually think it is the cool down effect that doesnt make the bolt go far enough back to make the boltcatch work...
I am currently shooting at my attic and its winter here in Belgium I guess its around 15 °C or even less...(thats 59 ° Fahrenheit)
So gonna try first thing tomorrow with some CO2

[burningashes]

Sometimes the bolt catch doesnt work if the pin is removed since it could be out of place. If its not the pin then its internal.
Also, if the bolt seems sluggish, then your problem could be the gas valve inside not releasing enough gas for the bolt to lock.

[Riko]

lol again my question remains, what pin in the bolt catch are you refering to?
there is 1 pin to keep the 2 piece design together, so I assume you are refering to that big pin.
But without the pin the bolt catch would just fall off so again, what pin are you refering too?

its not an M4, its a Scar....

And the bolt does not seem sluggish, its actually very smooth
It just doesnt go far enough back to engage the bolt catch.

And if it is not releasing enough gas, could this be due to simple cool down effect I wonder????
So nothing mechanical or technical, just cool down effect considering my descriptions above?

With every new fresh mag it works, but after a while it doesnt....

[Dart]

are you using Co2?

and yes it could very much be because of the weather. Most GBBR's on green gas are ment to operate at room temp or warmer. You could always make a custom cold weather spring.

I have the same issue but its because I am running co2 and the bolt moves too fast for the catch to engage properly.

[Ballcancer]

How long are you gassing up the mags? Also how well do you keep your scar clean/lubed? And, lol, do you put oil in the gas when you fill it? Beleive it or not these are all questions that can have an effect on the the preformance of the gun also do some of your own research and you would find that there is a massive thread devoted to to technical issues with WE scar, 416 and m4

[Ballcancer]

You also have to understand that these gas mags only have really enough gas for maybe a mag a mag anf a half on full auto before they start to lag a bit

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Dart

are you using Co2?

and yes it could very much be because of the weather. Most GBBR's on green gas are ment to operate at room temp or warmer. You could always make a custom cold weather spring.

I have the same issue but its because I am running co2 and the bolt moves too fast for the catch to engage properly.

lol no tomorrow I will use co2 for the first time since I have this problem....

But I do not understand that your bolt moves to fast with co2, I assume you are talking about full auto mode + with the bomber bolt carrier?
Because the stock bolt of the WE Scar has quite a slower rate of fire....
Or you are talking in summer time using co2...

Whatever the cause, I hope the usage of co2 is the solution in this period of time
I'll see first thing tomorrow.

ps: isn't a winter spring stiffer, and thus makes it harder for the bolt to go back. Because that is exactly the problem here: the bolt doesnt go far enough as it should...
Unless you are talking about using a softer spring, but that would give me less power when the bolt returns forward.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Ballcancer

How long are you gassing up the mags? Also how well do you keep your scar clean/lubed? And, lol, do you put oil in the gas when you fill it? Beleive it or not these are all questions that can have an effect on the the preformance of the gun also do some of your own research and you would find that there is a massive thread devoted to to technical issues with WE scar, 416 and m4

I gas em up till the end, like I said in my posts: "fully"

I use green gas, so there is already some silicon oil in it...why should I oil my magazines?
I just make sure the seals are oiled and lubed nicely.
All basic maintenance has been done as it should be.

Mags are fine, internals are brand new as I said before.
Only thing I can imagine is its simple cool down...but I want to be sure somehow.

Ow and I have seen all the threads, downloaded all the 'how to' films on youtube.
If I would have found out, I wouldn have opened a topic.

LIke I said, I am not sure, so I seek some advice on the board.
But I think its cooldown since the symptoms look like it, once again I will repeat them for ya:

mag FULLY filled with gas, HALF filled with bb's (not full, because I know that the boltcatch wont engage at the end, so I fill them only half with bb's) everything works fine.
when reloading with bb's, at the end the boltcatch wont engage, and I see a bit of ice forming.
mag number 2: identical process going on, at the beginning everything works fine, but at the end not more
mag 3: same thing...

The fact that AT THE BEGINNING of the shooting of a fresh new mag everything works fine, after some shooting, it doesnt, seems to be like a cooldown effect.

but I am not sure, so I need some potential heads up



ps: when you ask something as unclear like you just did: if I put oil IN the gas, you make it more confusing.
you cannot put oil IN gas...lol what kind of a question is that?
You prob meant if I oil/lube the seals etc on the magazine.
So pls, if you post in a technical topic with a problem, try to be correct in your terminology

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Ballcancer

You also have to understand that these gas mags only have really enough gas for maybe a mag a mag anf a half on full auto before they start to lag a bit

okay, I just said that I load my mags half with bb's....

full mag can load up to 30 bb's, I fill them with 15 bb's.
Beyond the 15 bb's the boltcatch issue starts.....so its not like after 1.5 or 2 mags I complain......

Its after about 15 to 20 bb's that the boltcatch wont work....

You say to me: "do some of your own research and you would find that there is a massive thread devoted to to technical issues with WE scar..."

Well, if you would read my topic description fully, you would also know the fact and you wouldn have to post these things that are already said in the facts.
I took the effort to be as detailed at possible, but it seems for some people the text is too long to read everything?

[Ballcancer]

yea you are correct with the oil in the gas lol what i meant is are you adding oil to the gas as you fill... i personally, and it works for my m4, use 2 drops of grenade oil for each fill and one drop on the fill nozzle to prevent leaking.. for the most part propane adaptors have some sort of resevoir where you can deposit oil into and it mixes with the gas as it fills ... gbb silicone oil is to thin for gbbrs as I have found and disapears quickly so you either have to manually add it (IE with a regular propane tank such as one of the coleman tanks and an adaptor 5 - 6 drops should do it per fill) but for me through trial and error I use Grenade oil for the tornados and i find it works wonders for the nozzle and stops it from freezing up, because it stays in place longer.. i dont recommend this if you are not comfortable trying it but its just what I do... and the research thing almost all of this info is found in the WETTI technical thread i know it because I had similar issues I had ice forming on my air nozzle as well... and it would vent gas and the ROF would fluctuate. This would happen in +20 weather as well

[Ross]

Why don't you go into your house and fire it into a pillow? That's what I do. That way you can see if temperature is really the problem.