KWA problems and concerns

[bean]

Hey guys I have a friend who works for KWA. They are actually interested in what you people think. So if you have had a problem or a suggestion to fix post it here. I will be sure to link my friend to this so he can show his boss.

[m102404]

Just posted this 20 or so minutes ago...


Aside from the below, the only other thing I would add is there's ZERO positive comments about their huge and garish logo on the receiver.

************
The KWA mechboxes are very nicely built right out of the box.

The solid aluminum piston head is a mistake, IMHO, especially since it is not loc tite'd to it's screw.

The shell has been beefed up near the front...with more material than other version 2 shells. What kind of extra-strength and breakage prevention this provides...couldn't tell you.

{edit out non-kwa parts}

Am I a KWA fan-boy? Not really. No more so than I think G&G, CA and a couple of others have put out good products. I do think that KWA missed the boat on a couple of key points in producing their armalite model:
1. Retaining the split hopup design
2. Requiring a "unique" top hopup unit and nozzle
3. Metal piston head
4. Non-loc-tite'd grub screws that secures the barrel to the chamber (at least there's 4 of them)
5. The ridge on their body stub for the stock tube is annoying.

Other than that...nice build.

Tys

[D_Rastaman]

Only problem i had with my M4 was with the bevel gear that broke after 150-200rnds... :banghead: oh and the KWA BIG ASS LOGO!

Apart from that I love it...

[manchovie]

Originally Posted by m102404

Am I a KWA fan-boy? Not really. No more so than I think G&G, CA and a couple of others have put out good products. I do think that KWA missed the boat on a couple of key points in producing their armalite model:
1. Retaining the split hopup design

Tys

is it like the old marui design? if so i wouldn't call that missing the boat at all. with all the clones out there using the old one piece hopup unit, this is obviously an informed decision. the problem with the old tm v2 style design plus one piece hopup is that its position depends more on the location of the magazine's bb port than on the location of the nozzle end. i have built many many custom armalites in my time and worked on many more that already had that one piece hopup and i've had nightmares trying to stop the various leaking issues. it's a rare thing indeed to have a one piece hopup working without any leaks and feeding perfectly, and pretty much impossible if you factor in the many many mags out there and the placement of each of their bb tubes and where they sit in the magwell.
tm's original ar's had one piece hopups, and they went to a two piece design... keep in mind this was BEFORE the multitudes of third party magazines. wonder why every other manufacturer went the other way.
look at any of their recent rifles, the part that the mag keys into causing the bb keeper to open is separate from the hop unit yet nobody complains about their "two piece design".
the old ca rifles (that actually had stamped CA trades) had a two piece hopup and switched to one piece, everyone else followed. I'm glad at least one company finally put some actual thought into their products instead of simply cloning some things and blindly trying to replicate the "features" of their competition.

[jesster202]

kwa usp stock recoil spring guide their birttle but once replaced are good shouldnt it be good to go from the box lol!

[vic_man4]

Originally Posted by m102404

Just posted this 20 or so minutes ago...
The shell has been beefed up near the front...with more material than other
Am I a KWA fan-boy? Not really. No more so than I think G&G, CA and a couple of others have put out good products. I do think that KWA missed the boat on a couple of key points in producing their armalite model:
1. Retaining the split hopup design
2. Requiring a "unique" top hopup unit and nozzle
3. Metal piston head
Tys

And I just replied to that post:
Yeah, the hopup unit is unique in the sense that the ridge provides perfect alignment, theres no advantage of a one peice unit being better than a two peice.
The piston head on the other hand...

Originally Posted by Radix

Contrary to popular believe, a ported piston is not always better. In the case of a KWA AEG, a ported piston installed with stock components will not guarantee a better seal or produce measurable performance gains. This is because every component in the KWA gear box is engineered to work as a system and not as individuals. Simply changing out one component for another may upset the balance of the system.
The KWA aluminum piston head and the polymer cylinder head work well together. They were designed to minimize impact but yet produce maximum performance. Changing out the piston head will upset the balance and may not guarantee a better result.

Why would KWA assemble a amazing gun and screw one thing up?

P.S. KWA is also a automotive parts company before airsoft, they have engineers and a extensive lab to test their AEG's to find the best performance, your just dicking perfection by changing out your KWA's piston head. Pardon the language.

[m102404]

Thank you Manchovie! I don't have the benefit of working on multi-generations of airsoft...I'm more centered on what's here and now, but it's great to get the background information.

Thanks to Vic_man4's background on KWA as well.

While we were asked for our problems or suggestions and I don't necessarily feel the need to justify my comments...I'll gladly fill in a bit more detail if it'll help in any way for a manufacturer to put out continually better products.

I am of the opinion that TM used a split design to facilitate the break open design of their plastic M4's. How well the upper and lower hopup seal at that critical junction is dependant on how consistently and tightly the upper and lower closes. Wear, abuse and variations in QC would all adversly affect the seal. Does it do the job? Yes. Would it be better to remove that potential issue/area of compromise...yes, I think so. It's not a 100% certainty...but the number of broken hopup uppers (from closing it improperly) tells a tale of a design issue (at least with "users" breaking them).

With a one piece hopup design, you have a "non-leaking" pathway from the bb inflow to the nozzle to the hopup rubber lips. Do some hopups tend to work better than others? Absolutely. I have several "spares" (actually a box filled with them) that just don't seem to work in any build. There's a CA, G&P, Guarder, Deepfire, and a half dozen Dboys (I kept a few...but then just started to throw them out in the garbage). Does not mean that those brands are junk...just means that I've not been able to get those individual ones to work right.

The KWA M4 shell is metal...nicely casted/finished. They "copied" TM's plastic body right down to the last details (re. the hopup section). It is exactly like the TM M4 body...except in metal. I would have much prefered to have seen a 1-piece hopup design used...solely for the fact that when it came time to replace/repair/"upgrade" it is infinitely easier to take a one-piece hopup unit and swap it in (providing you pick a good one).

The other "issue" that I have with their hopup unit/nozzle is that the nozzle is indexed with a ridge that fits a slot in the upper hopup. It works just fine and to date, at least with the 10 or so KWA M4's that I've worked on, the factory nozzle has fit/sealed relatively well with the cylinder head. Most are very good...2 were loose (IMHO). Nozzles wear. Nozzles break. I'd rather be able to replace that nozzle with something commonly/readily available vs. being either stuck to using a single type or else replacing the entire hopup system with a 2 piece TM replacement (which are not always readily available). When I speak of readily available, I mean that in the sense that I'd like to start and finish a repair within 2 evenings...and not have to stock parts I might not need or shelve repairs while I wait for parts to be shipped in.

Perhaps the "advantage" of other designs is that their replacements are readily available and different variations are available from different manufacturers.

Re. metal piston heads...again, it's my opinion that the "softer" the shock to the front of the mechbox (especially v2's) the better off the mechbox shell is. Whether the shock is spread out over a longer time or whether it's reduced in amplitude...I don't discern. No comment on ported vs. non-ported...that wasn't my point. There is no give in an aluminum piston head...but at least it is hitting a thin rubber pad on the cylinder head. Is that sufficient? Maybe...and if KWA did the research and put automotive class engineering into it...well that's why they did it. But would a different material be perhaps more forgiving and hedge your bets on extending the life span of the mechbox? In my opinion, yes.

Final word from me.
I've recommended the KWA M4 variants (well not the S-system version...I think the handguard is cheesy) to several people and they've been happy with them. 2 have had their metal piston heads come loose and blow their cylinders and pistons.

I do think that they are very well built and one of the best stock M4's out there. Can it be made better?...yes. My next personal M4 build will based on a KWA M4A1...it's sitting on my bench right now.

[bean]

Speaking with my friend with my friend it would appear the piston heads are now loctited on the older batches were not. He just checked one a few hours ago.

[Tiptoe]

Pros:

Everything feels very heavy, solid, cold and untoylike.

Performance out of the box kicks sweet holy ass.

Cons:

+1 vs. Big Ugly Logo (or lack of trades.) Full trade metal receivers FTmfW.

Compatibility w/ TM-compatible aftermarket parts is always somewhat questionable, and requires a lot of word-of-mouth research. I wish KWA would either publish a current and comprehensive parts compatibility document online, or make all their dimensions identical to TM parts for maximum mod-friendliness.

[Sha Do]

Originally Posted by Tiptoe

Pros:

Everything feels very heavy, solid, cold and untoylike.

Performance out of the box kicks sweet holy ass.

Agreed, very, very nice out of the box.

Originally Posted by Tiptoe

Cons:

+1 vs. Big Ugly Logo (or lack of trades.) Full trade metal receivers FTmfW.

Unfortunately, the no trades thing is because KWA was established to operate with in the United States, and the laws there dictate that no toy gun (airsoft or otherwise) is to have any trades on them. Hence, you will never find a KWA with any trades.

And as for the hugh KWA logo on the lower receivers of their AEG's...clueless. Ain't got the foggiest idea other than for (probably) self promotion.

SHA DO

[vic_man4]

Originally Posted by m102404

Re. metal piston heads...again, it's my opinion that the "softer" the shock to the front of the mechbox (especially v2's) the better off the mechbox shell is. Whether the shock is spread out over a longer time or whether it's reduced in amplitude...I don't discern. No comment on ported vs. non-ported...that wasn't my point. There is no give in an aluminum piston head...but at least it is hitting a thin rubber pad on the cylinder head. Is that sufficient? Maybe...and if KWA did the research and put automotive class engineering into it...well that's why they did it. But would a different material be perhaps more forgiving and hedge your bets on extending the life span of the mechbox? In my opinion, yes.

KWA cylinder head is plastic which takes the impact that the sorbo on the cylinder head doesnt, the cylinder head has 3mm of sorbo padding on it to reduce impact and absorb shock. I am actually starting to like the stock hopup unit too.

[bean]

Originally Posted by Sha Do

Unfortunately, the no trades thing is because KWA was established to operate with in the United States, and the laws there dictate that no toy gun (airsoft or otherwise) is to have any trades on them. Hence, you will never find a KWA with any trades.

SHA DO

Thats not 100% true from what I understand speaking to friends from the states. The airsoft guns in order to have real trades the company making them has to own the rights to use them like madbull does.

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by vic_man4

Why would KWA assemble a amazing gun and screw one thing up?

P.S. KWA is also a automotive parts company before airsoft, they have engineers and a extensive lab to test their AEG's to find the best performance, your just dicking perfection by changing out your KWA's piston head. Pardon the language.

serious ass kissing much?

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

serious ass kissing much?

Makes you wonder who he works for or something doesn't it?