Question for fellow CF'ers regarding issued kit

[Ibby]

Kokanee had a thread up regarding the use of issued gear at airsoft games. The link is here: http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...ht=issued+gear
Problem is the link in that thread is gone now. Does anyone have the updated link? I've been looking through the CFAO's online at work and cannot find it.

[MaD]

Hey Ibby
I was trying to find info on this a couple of weeks ago as well. Then the last night while looking up some other info on rat and quarters I found the page that that link went to:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_...17_e.asp#17.06
As far as I read (and my Sgt) the restrictions on wearing the uniform while not on duty really only applies to members of the reserves but it is really a grey area.
Let me know what you think.

PS: Luckly I have a pair bought from a surplus store so if I do decide to use them for a game I don't have to wreck my issued ones.

[Greylocks]

From what I remember that Kokanee posted; "dont use any issued gear" was the gist of it.

Anything else was fine. There were also mentions of discretion while going to/from games, but I may be wrong on that part.

Let's hope he sees this and replies with the correct answer.

[Amgoosen]

Don't wear anything the CF gave you unless your doing CF stuff. Simple as that.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by MaD

As far as I read (and my Sgt) the restrictions on wearing the uniform while not on duty really only applies to members of the reserves but it is really a grey area.

Yup I'm familiar with the link you posted. I'm not a reservist, that's why I was asking about Kokanee's link, to see if it had any wording for the regs. To date I have found nothing in the CFAO's/QR&O's/DAOD's that limit a reg force member from wearing issued kit outside of work. There is to be no mixing of issued kit and civvie items, but this rule has been around forever.

Originally Posted by Amgoosen

Don't wear anything the CF gave you unless your doing CF stuff. Simple as that.

Great advice, but can you quote/link/show anything in writing that states that? :banghead:

[thorvald]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Great advice, but can you quote/link/show anything in writing that states that? :banghead:

Any particular reason you need to see it in writing?

If your a member, you already know the answer, if not, your not subject to the CSD or Dress and Deportment regs.

However since I just finished a few hours of Code of Service Discipline/D and D regs with a Major who had to put up with a bunch of those "can I wear my uniform on Halloween questions", here are the basics:

QR&O Volume I - Administrative - Chapter 17
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_...17_e.asp#17.06

17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION

(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:

(2) Aucun militaire de la force de réserve ne porte l’uniforme, sauf :

(a) on service; or

a) s’il est en service;

(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

Also, if you are foolish enough to wear the uniform, you are then subject to the CSD. More info on the CSD here:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/training...s/CSD_ME_e.pdf

When am I subject to the CSD?

If you are a member of the Regular Force you are always subject to the
CSD, both inside and outside Canada.

If you are a member of the Reserve Force, you are subject to the CSD:
• while undergoing drill or training (whether you are in uniform or
not)
• whenever you are in uniform
• while on any military duty
• 24 hours a day, 7 days a week during any period of full time
service (Class "B" or "C" service)
• whenever you are present on defence property
• whenever you are in a vehicle, ship or aircraft of the CF


You don't want to know what they can do to you then...

If your still "unsure", go ask your RSM... ;-)

Cheers

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by thorvald

Any particular reason you need to see it in writing?

Yes. If there's a rule/reg/order stating that we cannot wear issued kit to an airsoft game, it must be written down somewhere. I'd like to see it.

Originally Posted by thorvald

If your a member, you already know the answer, if not, your not subject to the CSD or Dress and Deportment regs.

I am a member, been a member since '88, and I still don't know the answer. I've never seen it written anywhere. The link you quoted I'm well aware of. I know I can't go to a fancy dress ball in my uniform. The rest does not apply as I stated above, I'm not a rental.

Originally Posted by thorvald

If your still "unsure", go ask your RSM... ;-)

Cheers

Already done, and waiting to hear back. He can't find it (so far) either. I did get a "where do you come up with these questions?" though.
I'm not trying to argue against what Kokanee stated, and I'm not trying to play devil's advocate or anything. I'm just looking for a definitive answer. In reality I do have Cadpat from an outside source (Dave's army surplus rocks!) as well as a chest rig and plenty of other kit from CP Gear (they rock too). The purchased Cadpat isn't any different from the issued stuff I have as there's no disposal markings on any of it. I thought finding out a solid answer would be easier.

[PTE. Pyle]

Jeez Ibby and here I thaught you out ranked you RSM

Or wait nm you piss them off by glueing darts to you helmet

On a real note, how do you like your new home. are you ready to go awol back to cfb comox yet

[seekah]

Yeah man, if Ibby isnt sure, knowone is sure.
I miss seing you on the field with your 249 and a whackload of rubber darts too!

[thorvald]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Yes. If there's a rule/reg/order stating that we cannot wear issued kit to an airsoft game, it must be written down somewhere. I'd like to see it.

Actually I found a paragraph from Chapter 36 in the QR&O that covers "recreational activities".

Your going to love this paragraph:

36.05 – USE OF MATERIEL FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES

Except with the permission of the Minister, no materiel may be issued to or used by a member for purposes unrelated to the performance of military duty, recreational activities or his status as a member of the Canadian Forces.

It specifically states recreational activities as usable... if your brave enough, you can stretch your Airsoft to be a "recreational activity"....

I'm not going down that road...but you can ;-)

---

Every other instantance I could find indicated that as long as you had permission from your chain of command (i.e. CO), your good.

Time to get a letter from God?

[Ibby]

The new place is ok. At least it's not snowing here
Since I kept my house in Vic and moved into shacks here I had to put all my airsoft guns in the lockup at the MP shack. You shoulda seen their eyes when I pulled them all out of their cases. They didn't seem to think the darts on the 249 were funny though. And yes, I'm close to going awol to visit home. But I'll be there in 11 and a wakie!

Thanks for finding that QR&O thorvald. It works for me. I'm just looking for some ass coverage if some tin pot upper rank wants to give me grief. Sometimes the school sucks. At all the other postings I've had I've actually gotten good credit for training on my own time by playing airsoft.