Airsoft Armoury's Digital DPM

[R.A.T.M._JLD]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Please provide evidence to support your claim, so that I may be enlightened.

He is right. There is this stuff called Desert Night Camo that use pixela pattern. I've been told it works realy good.

I'll find some info on it after work.

[MiniMcNabb]

Originally Posted by R.A.T.M._JLD

He is right. There is this stuff called Desert Night Camo that use pixela pattern. I've been told it works realy good.

Yeah, it worked realy good in 1991 against Ex russian communist NVG gear used by Iraqi conscripts.

[Hades]

Found this about the desert night camo

http://yarchive.net/mil/night_camo_clothing.html

[soldiers301]

Please provide evidence to support your claim, so that I may be enlightened

Lol just start to provide us proof that what I said is not true, and then you would be enlightened.

I explained why it was true, just read. And I`m not the only one here to say that it`s true.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by soldiers301

This kind of "Digital" pattern would not be adopted by any modern Military. It would not provide any IR protection. On CADPAT, MARPAT and ACUPAT, the pixel have a specific size, wich from a distance of approximatly 200 feet would be the same as the pixel of an Infrared device. The IR device is not intelligent and would not make the difference between a man wearing pixel and it`s own pixel. That`s why it`s more difficult to see a person who wear CADPAT, MARPAT or ACUPAT.

Sorry for the poor English :razz:

That makes no sense. What is IR according to you in this case? It's the energy released by your body. This energy really doesn't care about how is the pattern on your BDU. The digital pixel pattern has only effect on your vision, why... because your brain become confused with these optical illusion. It's exactly inspired from a lot of animals like jaguar.

Originally Posted by soldiers301

Lol just start to provide us proof that what I said is not true, and then you would be enlightened.

I explained why it was true, just read. And I`m not the only one here to say that it`s true.

I'm not arguing the point, I'm asking for verificaiton because it's completely contrary to what I've been taught and learned in 15 years of dealing with military textiles. You know, MANUFACTURING miltary-grade equipment using military materials.

How can I prove that it's not true? The key differentiation between civilian patterns of digital materials (i.e. Parklands or Frontenac) and issue-grade (DND licensed) materials is the application of the IR defeating coating that is applied to the material as it's dye-run. The treatment is said to reduce IR signatures by up to 40%.

Regarding the pixelation of the pattern; A pixel is a pixel, a measurement of size. Blowing something up to half a centimeter by half a centimeter doesn't make it a pixel in the eyes of an IR scope, which measures HEAT and has nothing to do with pixelation or patterns. IR works by measuring differences in HEAT between the environment and man-made objects and providing a visual representation of the heat pattern.

Pixelation is only a factor when dealing with digital surveillance equipment that cannot auto-focus due to the fractal pattern in use. Therefore, digital camouflage of ANY type provides some obfuscation against surveillance systems, but AS FAR AS I KNOW the pattern in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on effectiveness against IR.

"Desert Night" patterned material is different - it uses a criss-cross shape which confuses earlier night vision systems, but again, has nothing to do with pixelation or IR.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by soldiers301

Your wrong. The pattern is made with pixel to enhance the IR protection.

IR is a wavelength of light in range invisable to the human eye. As such, mechanical devices used to detect it are not effected by pattern.

Pattern is used to fool the human brain.

IR distruption is achieved by trating material with chemicals that either lower the reflactivity at certain wavelengths, or absorb the wavelength.

Patten has NO effect on modern IR. That doesn't mean it still can't confuse the brain of the person looking through the IR device, it's just much less likely, especially when you are using rigs that are true thermal and detact ONLY heat (light in the not visible range).

[Luckyorwhat]

I'd guess that camouflage is made in Vanouver by a guy named Guy Kramer, cool guy, but won't let you use patterns for free, and I understand that, because they will get around and people will copy them and he'd be out all the time and money he put into them. I'd bet it's http://hyperstealth.com/specam/order.html one of those. Incidentally you can purchase them. They look NICE.

Hyperstealth is in Vancouver, most of you probably heard of them, the camo at the start of this thread also sort of looks like theirs made for the Jordanian police.

http://hyperstealth.com/pages/5/index.htm

Or the SPEC4CE http://hyperstealth.com/spec4ce/index.html

Or maybe this stuff they made for some movie, 'SpecAm Urbanized Terrain'


I've got a woodland hat, and a gen1 monocular, and the green brown and tan all look the same in IR. You can't tell them apart. The black really stands out. So the pattern is 2-tones only in IR. (car tires, also black, also really stand out. Black stuff is so black it's almost like it's glowing, but glowing dark.) Not sure what it means for digital camo vs. NVD debate, but I could hold a camera to the lens and take a picture to show how it looks.

"http://yarchive.net/mil/night_camo_clothing.html"
I'd seen that before too, and that no-one uses 'night vision camo' anymore suggests it's true.

[Digital_Assasin]

I've got a woodland hat, and a gen1 monocular, and the green brown and tan all look the same in IR. You can't tell them apart. The black really stands out. So the pattern is 2-tones only in IR. (car tires, also black, also really stand out. Black stuff is so black it's almost like it's glowing, but glowing dark.) Not sure what it means for digital camo vs. NVD debate, but I could hold a camera to the lens and take a picture to show how it looks.

The green and tan look the same because they are refelcting the same / close to the same wavelength of IR.

The black looks black because it is absorbing the IR and not reflecting any back to you.

NVG IS NOT IR

[Luckyorwhat]

"The Basics
In order to understand night vision, it is important to understand something about light. The amount of energy in a light wave is related to its wavelength: Shorter wavelengths have higher energy. Of visible light, violet has the most energy, and red has the least. Just next to the visible light spectrum is the infrared spectrum.



Infrared light is a small part of the light spectrum.

Infrared light can be split into three categories:

* Near-infrared (near-IR) - Closest to visible light, near-IR has wavelengths that range from 0.7 to 1.3 microns, or 700 billionths to 1,300 billionths of a meter.
* Mid-infrared (mid-IR) - Mid-IR has wavelengths ranging from 1.3 to 3 microns. Both near-IR and mid-IR are used by a variety of electronic devices, including remote controls.
* Thermal-infrared (thermal-IR) - Occupying the largest part of the infrared spectrum, thermal-IR has wavelengths ranging from 3 microns to over 30 microns.

The key difference between thermal-IR and the other two is that thermal-IR is emitted by an object instead of reflected off it. Infrared light is emitted by an object because of what is happening at the atomic level."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nightvision1.htm


I think this is why people refer to near-ir devices as 'Night Vision Devices', and thermal imagine devices as 'Thermals'.