Looking for comments on purchasing upgraded Tokyo Mauri VSR-10 from Canarmo.

[Flipster]

Hello folks...

I'm contemplating getting a Tokyo Mauri VSR-10 from Canarmo... they have the stock gun for $499 but they also have an upgraded version for $999.99 with the following upgraded parts:

- Laylax PSS10 air seal damper cylinder head G-Spec
- Laylax PSS10 Hop-up Kit G-Spec
- PDI Hop-up rubber
- Tanio Koba Hop twist barrel 430mm
- Laylax PSS10 Ball bearing spring guide G-Spec
- Laylax PSS10 130SP Spring
- King Arms Piston
- TM Silencer adaptor
- Silencer
- NcStar Scope

Looking for any comments regarding these upgrades... are the upgrades worth the cash... is there anything else that should be upgraded right off the bat?

I've run this by one of our local gun doctors and he thinks this is solid but also advised that I post here to get any further comments.

I've sent off a note off to Canarmo to get more detail on the Scope as there's no information here on what you're getting.

One other thing I'd like to find out is regarding the spring upgrade. With the 130SP spring, it brings the FPS up to 430. I've been doing a bit of reading on the Tanio Koba twist barrel and from what I've read, it says that this benefits from a lower FPS. So I assume the 430 will be okay / good for this upgrade. I was going to see about getting the 150SP spring which would bring the FPS up to 510 FPS - would this be okay to use with this barrel or is it too much. I want to make this gun as accurate as possible and have a good range. I originally thought about the 190SP spring but that brings the gun to 600 FPS which I think would be too much based on the other upgrades listed... comments?

Thanking-you in advance!

[Drakker]

The lower FPS thing for the TK twist barrels has been debunked. That rumor was started by one guy who reviewed it and it didn't perform well with more powerful springs. The reason is simple, you have to treat a TK twist like a wide bore barrel, the more powerful the spring you use, the more air volume you need, because a lot of the air will escape past the BBs through the rifling. By increasing air volume, the TK twist will perform just fine at higher FPS.

As for the value of the whole package, notice that it is missing an upgraded trigger and cylinder, this is a recipe for disaster with a stronger spring. Also, the King Arms piston has a smaller diameter than the stock piston, it fits well in King Arms, PDI and Well cylinders but will not work well in the slightly larger stock TM cylinder or Laylax cylinders. Also the Laylax hop-up unit is useless, the stock TM chamber is better because it uses superior VSR style hop-up rubbers instead of standard AEG hop-up rubbers.

This is a weird package indeed...

[Flipster]

Thanks for the information Drakker...

I just want a well put together & very accurate rifle... based on your comments, this sounds like a good start for 'somethings' (not all), but it definitely needs others right up front as well?

With respect to the barrel, what's the best route to go... the Tanio Koba Hop twist barrel or go with a 6.01 smooth barrel of some other brand?

Can you (or someone) please list off what upgrades (and a specific parts list) should be done and then I'll go about getting that list and prices and maybe get a local gun doctor to do this for me.

If anyone has better suggestions, I am all ears.

Thanks again!

[Drakker]

It might be a good start, it depends on what you want to put in there. Make a list of the parts you want, and their price. Then add the price of your parts to the un-upgraded rifle, and with the upgraded rifles minus the parts that might already be in there. Then go the the lowest total.

I would personally keep the TM inner barrel, these barrel a very good nowadays, you will not get a significant increase in precision by upgrading it, and you are unlikely to get a lemon barrel with a TM rifle. If you really want to upgrade it, the Prometheus/Laylax 6.03 are the best bang for the buck. The PDI barrels are amazing, especially the 6.04 10mm ones, but they are not a good price/precision ratio compared to the Prometheus or stock barrel. A 6.01 is not a good idea in a sniper rifle, tighter barrel are less precise than wider barrels. You use them when you want to squeeze as much FPS as possible out of a weak system, but they don't have their place in a sniper rifle unless you want to do a super silent build with the weakest spring possible.

Before making a parts list we need to know what are the goals of your build.

[-=ArchAngel=-]

Originally Posted by Drakker

The lower FPS thing for the TK twist barrels has been debunked. That rumor was started by one guy who reviewed it and it didn't perform well with more powerful springs. The reason is simple, you have to treat a TK twist like a wide bore barrel, the more powerful the spring you use, the more air volume you need, because a lot of the air will escape past the BBs through the rifling. By increasing air volume, the TK twist will perform just fine at higher FPS.

As for the value of the whole package, notice that it is missing an upgraded trigger and cylinder, this is a recipe for disaster with a stronger spring. Also, the King Arms piston has a smaller diameter than the stock piston, it fits well in King Arms, PDI and Well cylinders but will not work well in the slightly larger stock TM cylinder or Laylax cylinders. Also the Laylax hop-up unit is useless, the stock TM chamber is better because it uses superior VSR style hop-up rubbers instead of standard AEG hop-up rubbers.

This is a weird package indeed...

Not disputing what you're saying, but may i ask where or how you came to that conclusion? I am very much interested in this

Sorry for being offtopic

[Hectic]

youll want steel sears at least or a whole trigger mech (like the laylax zero) also im not sure of the quality of the KA piston, i run the laylax piston in my vsr along with the laylax teflon cylinder and deepfire stainless sears. Overall its a decent package but id opt for a regular tightbore (ive been having good luck with the madbull python 6.01 also had good results with promy barrels.

i personally would just order the gun and.parts from japan (youll need to upgrade it.for import before hand) you can prolly get the gun and upgrades including the cylender and such for about the same price.
also i would wonder about how they used a pdi rubber with the laylax hop chamber, the laylax uses a proprietary rubbe and im not aware of any available replacements besides the laylax one, unless the cut up the laylax one to use with the pdi one

[Flipster]

Thanks for all responses...

Drakker... my goal here is to have as super accurate a gun as possible that can reach out to a good distance. Now, a good distance is different for everyone. For anyone who has a VSR-10, please chime in here but I think the effective range on a tune VSR-10 is 200+ feet (is that correct) - if the answer is YES, what size target can I expect to hit as this distance. I want a decent rifle (which is why I have been steered towards the VSR-10), with very consistent accuracy at a distance that I will not be owned by an AEG or similar. I do not need the highest FPS ever recorded but I was thinking about using either .3 or even .4 (if that would be better) and I would like to be getting 400 - 450 FPS using said BB of choice.

All thoughts & comments are appreciated !

[Drakker]

Originally Posted by -=ArchAngel=-

Not disputing what you're saying, but may i ask where or how you came to that conclusion? I am very much interested in this

Sorry for being offtopic

The first reference I found on airsoft mechanics, although there are other good posts on this subject there: http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/i...6618#msg136618


Flipster: then your ultimate goal is to have the best air seal possible. This means that your piston, cylinder, cylinder head, hop-up rubber and hop-up unit seal must be perfect. After that, if you are not satisfied with the accuracy, and you can rule out hop-up rubber problems, you might want to lap/polish or upgrade the inner barrel.

There are many ways to do this, Laylax cylinder, piston and cylinder head is a great option. Couple that with a PDI V-Trigger or Laylax zero trigger for durability; do not skip on the 90° trigger, the 45° sear in the normal unit pushes on your piston on the cylinder, and with a stronger spring, will deform your cylinder, ruining it. The Marui hop-up unit is great, a PDI W hop-up rubber and a flat hop-up arm like this: http://airsoftpro.cz/eshop/product_i...oducts_id=2928 will give you great hop and accuracy. Alternatively, you can R-Hop your barrel, which could slightly increase range and will provide a much flatter BB flight trajectory.

Use a lot of barrel spacers to reduce barrel vibration, 6-8 is good depending on the length of your rifle. A sorbo pad to reduce sound and shock would be a good idea too.

Alternatively you can use all PDI parts from x-fire.org, but the PDI system is much noisier than the Laylax system because it lacks an air brake, although some people claim it is more accurate. As always with sniper rifle, its accuracy is limited by your ability to build and maintain it. Also, a crappy quality scope will lead to crappy accuracy.

A well tuned VSR at 1.5 joules (~400 fps on 0.2g) should be able to hit a torso sized target every time in low wind at 200 feet. As you increase power and BB weight you can push past this at 250 feet, but additional power doesn't mean additional accuracy, it is actually harder to make a more powerful rifle accurate (more vibrations, harder trigger pull, etc). Also be very careful of joule creep, always chrono your gun with the BB weight you are using, especially with very overvolumed rifles like the VSR10 G-Spec. Mine shoots 370 fps with 0.2g (1.27j)... 370 fps with 0.25g (1.59j)... 365 fps with 0.3g (1.86j) that's the equivalent of 447 fps with 0.2g, very close to most fields limit.