FPS Limits at fields with hop up on or off?

[ThunderCactus]

Yep, that does happen on some setups
Another reason to have the quick reference chart on the chrono. Cause then you're not holding up the line for 15 seconds every time someone has a different ammo weight lol

[Blackthorne]

http://msed.bbbastard.com/ATP/01-c-01.htm

ATP - Kinetic Energy

Section I-C: Kinetic Energy


Read through this. Its a bit hard to digest, but the bottom line is even without the hop factoring in, the existing testing methods are not reliable.

[Aj619]

I think the FPS method was adopted from paintball but in paintball 300 FPS is the regulated limit because when they were orginally test the energy the paintball exerts they placed a limit on the energy the ball is allowed to exert just under 11 ft lb. whitch was the just under the ammount needed to break a finger

Essentially the FPS limits used is a missguided attempt at safety which they didn't understand. it's all about the energy and the airsoft community needs to adopt the energy standard idea that paintball first used it just so happend that 300 FPS is what the safe energy limit worked out to.

[ThunderCactus]

Every club has a muzzle energy limit, its just most of them go about testing the wrong way lol
Chrono's never used to have energy conversions on them
and nobody had heard of fps to energy conversions back in the day
and nobody had GBBRs that are the cornerstone of the measuring problem
So as long as you had the right cylinder to barrel combination, testing on .20s was actually pretty accurate.

But everythings being converted to muzzle energy testing now, but the only way to test it is to measure the fps of the BB you'll be using at the proper hop setting. So you're still measuring fps to find muzzle energy. Difference between testing with .20s is you're not assuming the energy gain curve with heavier ammo is linear, which is the problem.

[m102404]

With so many gas rifles/smg and even some pistols it's really become a PITA to run chrony stations at large games. You almost need 2-3 lines for 100+ person games. One for regular AEGs...and in most cases just giving them some 0.20's to put in a mag works fine. Another for gas guns...and then you're best off doing a J coversion. And another to pitch in wherever things are slowing down.

We need MadMax @ AI to produce a J measuring pad that we can just have each player shoot it to get a "real" measurement. Put it at a set distance away...shoot it with a reference gun (for convenience it'd be mine..LOL) and then have a red or green light go off to signify a go/no go limit.

Maybe DonP isn't busy...

[ThunderCactus]

Doing conversions, by changing chrono settings or mathing it out on your phone, is what takes time.
All you're doing is converting an fps limit to a joule rating for a specific weight of BB
So the shorthand way to do it is just find the maximum joule limit on the common weights of BBs and write them all down. As long as you're under that limit, you're good.
"What weight of ammo you using?"
"xxg"
tap tap tap
all shots under the limit
get your ziptie and GTFO

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Doing conversions, by changing chrono settings or mathing it out on your phone, is what takes time.
All you're doing is converting an fps limit to a joule rating for a specific weight of BB
So the shorthand way to do it is just find the maximum joule limit on the common weights of BBs and write them all down. As long as you're under that limit, you're good.
"What weight of ammo you using?"
"xxg"
tap tap tap
all shots under the limit
get your ziptie and GTFO

Except when people give you the wrong weight, either accidentally......or on purpose.

[ThunderCactus]

Ya but you can't test with .20s because the energy gain isn't linear
so it has to be with what they're saying they'll use
So either they lie to you about the weight they have in their mag, or you have several different weights of chrono BBs and they pick a different weight anyway, or the event has to supply all BBs of every weight to everyone and they go trade with someone else.
The only way to ensure nobody cheats the chrono is to assign ammo to people and then randomly spot check them on the field, or have everyone run the exact same weight and have special colored ammo (like orange) so it's easy to spot.

Whether you do the calculation on your phone, on the chrono, or write out all the weights on the chrono, it doesn't affect the end result, just how fast you get to it. If they want to cheat the system then they're going to try and cheat the system.

[Cobrajr122]

I actually like the idea of the pad you shoot at.

No matter the weight of BBs used you will get a proper joule rating.

Again, nothing will stop a user from switching to a higher weight after chrono, but having something like this will make it much easier and faster to chrono everybody.

[m102404]

Or just go/no-go chrony everyone with 0.30's. We usually have a BBBastard at games and we just buy a couple of bags to chrony everyone with and then shoot up the rest. There'll be the odd ones that shoot a heavier weight but that's a much fewer minority.

Cheaters are always going to cheat...and there are lots of ways to do that.

[kalnaren]

How often do you guys actually encounter people intentionally cheating with BB weight? I think I've only been to two games where it's been an issue.

[ThunderCactus]

It was a plague when GBBRs first hit the scene, but that was more due to the lack of NPAS and education rather than BB weight.
And one typically uses heavier ammo to lower their fps to cheat, I haven't seen anyone use lighter ammo to beat the chrono yet lol