G&P Canadian Carbine

[Kennytaker]

Hey guys & gals, just wondering if anyone has either the G&P Canadian Carbine or G&P Canadian Carbine - MRE or G&P SR16 URX (shorty)?

I'm thinking about the picking up a G&P SR16 URX (shorty) or G&P Canadian Carbine - MRE , what your thoughts on them? Will be using it stock for awhile, until parts wear down

And for those that own one:
What's your thoughts on it?
How reliable/durable is it?
Any major issues you've run into with the rifle?
Any upgrades you suggest for it?

Thanks in advance

Side Question: Or should I look for a KWA M4 SR10?

[L473ncy]

Love the G&P. I have one myself (although it is a mishmash of upgrade and stock parts now).

Right off the bat I believe people were saying that shimming and gears needed to be upgraded. Not totally necessary until it breaks down but it's a bit of preventative maintenance you can do so it's not like half way through the day your gears strip and you have to go home or borrow someone elses stuff.

Other than that just play it stock and upgrade when you think you need a bit more ____ (accuracy, ROF, power, etc.). Remember to target your upgrades to specific things you want to improve. ie. Don't upgrade the spring if you want to get a higher ROF, instead get high speed gears, a high speed motor, and preferably use an M110 or lower spring so that you can actually turn over the gears.

[MaciekA]

About a month ago myself and two friends bought 2 G&P Canadian Carbines and also the G&P MOE CQB. They're nearly identical guns with the notable exception of the MOE edition having a different motor and a Magpul body.

( I've been planning on writing this up for a while but I have been waiting until my G&P is stable before posting it. I might as well start posting here since you've started this thread. I hope you don't consider this thread-jacking -- I'd love to keep the thread up to date as I bring my Canadian Carbine up to spec )

One thing you should know about the Canadian Carbine being sold by the people I believe you're probably getting it from is that the ones imported here are upgraded to tightbore barrels (6.03mm) and get a nice shimming, so they're slightly better than the specs you will see on G&P's website or HK/USA sites that sell these.

Summary of my Canadian Carbine

Took it to its first game, fired a few shots in the first 5 minutes of play and the gun seized up. Took it back to retailer, got it fixed nice and quick. The sector gear lost a tooth in the process (I've kept it as a souvenir if you wanna bug me for a picture layer). I've talked to an experienced local gun doctor and G&P gears seem to be reasonably-well regarded, so I think this may have been down to a re-assembly error by the shop where I bought and downgraded downgraded the gun (they come shooting well into the mid-400s. You *need* to downgrade these for gameplay).

After getting fixed, I took it out to a couple more games, and unfortunately ran into major feeding problems with the included mag. The gun itself and hopup are fine, but the BBs are just stuck in the mag itself maybe 5-10mm below the BB release latch and don't move.

Unfortunately, the included G&P mag does not feed properly and in my opinion is dead on arrival. I tried lots of things, giving it some silicon spray, trying different BBs (Madbull precision series .25g, Airsoft Central Precision .25g, Velocity Arms 0.25g, BB Bastard 0.25g), etc. Nothing worked. If you can work out a deal where you avoid getting one of these with your Canadian Carbine and substitute something else (i.e. a higher-end Magpul PTS mag), I recommend going that route instead.

I returned the included mag and got 4 identical G&P replacement mags. They all exhibit the same problem. I'm surprised they pass QA. I tried a G&G hicap mag with this gun and it fed fine in both semi and full auto. PMAGs work fine also.

After the first repair the gun seemed to be working pretty well (aside from the mag feeding issues) but to a lot of players ears sounded somewhat "harsh" when I demonstrated it to them or let them try it. At my last game on Sunday (Sept 3rd), at the end of the game day I decided to fire a bunch of shots at the chrono to empty my remaining mag. I fired my first full auto burst of the day and the motor/bevel gear let out a terrible grinding noise (and stopped firing). I took a look at the bottom of my pistol grip, and the large screw that holds the motor in place was nearly all the way out. The friend that had got the MOE edition was standing next to me and instantly recognized what had happened (see summary of MOE below).

Which leads me to..

Summary of my friend's MOE (he may chime in on this thread, I'll ask him):

First game, the gun worked well. Fired a few mid-caps admirably. Hop-up and accuracy was great. Firing somewhat slow (300fps). This was tuned at the shop and after that it was firing about 360fps. Second game, in the first 5 minutes of a convoy scenario, the motor / bevel gear let out a terrible grinding noise. The screw at the bottom of the pistol grip had visibly twisted itself out a few mm off the bottom (sound familiar?). The gun was taken to shop, and it turned out that the motor had shredded the bevel gear. Both had to be replaced. The gun worked completely fine at Sunday's game.

Summary of my friend's Canadian Carbine, same batch, purchased same day:

Same feeding problems as my Canadian Carbine. With included mag, only fires a BB every 3 or 4 actual shots on full-auto. Other than that, seems mostly ok. I guess that he might eventually get the same motor-related problem as the other two guns have had, but his gun has seen a lot fewer games since purchase than the other two have.

Conclusion:

Overall, this story probably sounds troubling but I'm anticipating that once my group gets these initial teething problems worked out these guns are going to perform fairly well, and everyone seems to agree that G&P is a great platform to start from if you're going to build a reliable gun that will last you many games and be easy to maintain.

I'm bringing my Canadian Carbine to the shop in about a week and will try to get my current issue resolved. After that I expect this gun to start stabilizing. I've got some advice from some people that I should put in sorbo pads, maybe replace the piston and some other stuff, so I'll evaluate those options depending on how it performs at the games I attend in the coming weeks. If I saw 3 of these nearly-identical guns have these issues out of the gate you'll need to make sure you pay careful attention to them when starting out with them.

In short, if you buy a G&P expect it to be a badass gun but expect it to have some teething problems (especially since by the time you fire your first shot it's been not only assembled at the factory, but disassembled/reassembled for upgrade in Hong Kong, then disassembled/reassembled *again* after importation to bring it down to a game-legal speed). Expect to have to do some maintenance and possibly spend a little bit of extra money and time to bring this gun to a stable point where it will last you a while.

I'll try to update this thread next week after I get my current issue fixed.

[Kennytaker]

Thanks L473ncy and MaciekA
The local shop near me said it has to be downgraded and suggested to replace the gearbox/motor, as it's to strong and will wear down the interals and it's not gaming safe/legal. (Sounded like alot of extra $ to do this)

Just hate the thought of paying extra to DOWNGRADE?... sounds horrible sigh.

SPECS they gave me:
Description: **This product ONLY sale to Canada**
Magazine Capacity: 130
Length: 770mm / 850mm
Muzzle Velocity: 430fps (0.2BB)
Weight: 3000g
Built Material: Metal & ABS
Inner Barrel Length: 14.5"
Gearbox: 8mm Bearing Gearbox
Motor: G&P M160 Hi-torque

This product has been heavily customized for the Canadian Market, the build quality has been made to sustain 430-450fps with 0.20g out of the box.
To downgrade we suggest purchasing a replacement gearbox and motor set.
This rifle uses standard deans connectors. Battery wise, advise using 7.2v or 8.4v Battery (Not Included) However, this rifle is rear wired to house a lipo battery in the stock if you want, allowing you to easily customize with any type of rail set in the front.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Kennytaker

I can get it brand new in box for $430.... but not sure how much "downgrading it will cost" Just hate the thought of paying extra to DOWNGRADE?... sounds horrible sigh.

This product has been heavily customized for the Canadian Market, the build quality has been made to sustain 430-450fps with 0.20g out of the box.
To downgrade we suggest purchasing a replacement gearbox and motor set.

I know which retailer you're copy-pasting this from, and they don't actually recommend a replacement gearbox/motor -- the above is just nonsensical boilerplate they have on their website. You should visit them in person and discuss how this works with them. The only downgrade necessary is the spring. They also do not charge you any money for downgrading the springs on G&P guns. Also, you get to keep the spring that the gun was imported with if you ever want it for a project down the road.

Judging by your reaction above, I would urge you to slow down a bit, read more, ask lots of questions, etc. Get age verified (the retailer in question does age verification -- you can kill two birds with one stone). Also, even though a downgrade is not going to cost you money, *do* prepare yourself to stomach a bigger budget than just $430.

If you are just looking to get started without the sticker shock of a high end gun that incurs maintenance, downgrade and upgrade costs out of the box, you might want to look at some of the less expensive house-brand guns this particular retailer carries. They stand behind what they sell and can help you get up and running.

It's just a feeling, but given your reaction to the downgrade, you may not have the stomach for the higher level of ownership involvement that this G&P requires.

[L473ncy]

Toss in an M110 or M120 spring to bring it to game legal standards (~360-400 FPS is what you're aiming for here). No need to put in a new drop in mechbox or motor.

I run a high torque motor in my gun and it WILL NOT wear out parts because it's too strong. The only thing that actually adds extra stress onto the internals is a higher powered spring.

Other than bringing down the speed of the rifle if you really want to do other things then get a new gear set. They can be had for ~50-100 depending on which brand/company you go with. ie. Prometheus gears will run you ~90-120 plus shipping while a Modify "shimless" set will run you ~$90, then you can get Guarder which will cost you ~$50 more or less.

[Kennytaker]

Cools thanks again guys. Well I'm just starting out. I dunno if it's the right sport for me yet, so don't want to invest to much in it. Yet, I don't want to start off with "crap" either I've already meet up with a AV'er but still waiting for the site admin to update and post the tag. "was told may take a few weeks to do as well"

G&P seems to be a solid brand. With alot of GTA dealers backing it. Since the "Canadian version" is semi upgraded already and a pretty cheap price tag on it. Thinking that's the best fit for me right now. I just need to buy a 7.4Lipo & Lipo Smart Charger, M120 Spring, .25 BBs, afew extra Mags, goggles and I'm ready to try it out? I have a KWA M9 pistol already.

Wanted to stick with KWA brand, but it's hard to find these days...everyone says they have no stock and may take a few months to get KWA stuff. And most say go with G&P most have them in stock and easy to get parts and accessories.

[MaciekA]

Hi guys,

I haven't used this rifle since my last post above. I took it back to my shop to have them take a look at it but their gun doctor hasn't been in lately, so yesterday I decided I'd go pick it up. My issues with this gun have basically boiled down to 1) mag feeding 2) motor alignment / gear issues, so I wanted to see if I could solve these issues myself. I borrowed a house brand tester mag from my airsoft shop to try to solve #1, and between the time that I last posted and now I'd accumulated enough spare parts to probably handle whatever gearbox issue came up when I opened it.

One note before I share some pictures.. I've read about G&P guns on several forums, talked to a few people in person, etc, and they've all said pretty much the same thing word-for-word "great externals, fantastic gearbox, but replace those terrible gears and that piston as soon as you get it, they're crap". I can confirm that compared to my G&G, this thing feels like a million bucks and as strong as an ox. Some of these parts will last a very long time, if not forever. As for the gears and piston, well, read on..

Here's the M160 motor that was in my Canadian Carbine:



One interesting thing I noted between the M120 and the M160 is that the M160 seems to use a silver wiring to its terminals, while the M120 uses a copper wiring. Here's a closeup of the damage to my M160's pinion gear:



It's not easy to see, but if you look closely you can see how far the pinion dropped below the bevel, which promptly chewed into it. The bevel gear shows no signs of wear at all.

Here's a shot of the gearbox after removal:



Gun techs reading this will note the compressed spring. So I grabbed a tool and fiddled with the anti-reveral latch to let the spring decompress before disassembly.

No reaction from the spring. Uh oh.

I take the gearbox apart, taking care to hold the compressed spring to ensure nothing goes flying. The first sign that something is off is little bits of metal everywhere stuck in the grease and lining the corners of the interior of the shell. I find bits of it stuck in the grease on the spur gear here:



I remove the sector gear and something feels a bit off about it so I take a look and discover this:



D'oh. That's the second G&P sector gear this gun has destroyed and it's only fired a couple mags worth of rounds. Note that the first failure also featured a snapped axle, and that was in the first 5 minutes of use in this gun's life. This discovery made me a bit worried about the other gears so I inspected them carefully. The spur gear also had bent axles.

I'm definitely not an expert and a total noob when it comes to gearboxes but I've been doing a ton of reading and I have been told that if something goes wrong with gear alignment, jamming, bad AoE, or whatever, using a metal-tooth piston can be a very bad thing because one failure will cause multiple failures rather than just taking it out on the piston's teeth. It is far better to strip a cheap plastic piston than to take out your gear set, which is the most expensive part of your gearbox.

Well, here's a picture of the piston included in the G&P Canadian Carbine:



This thing is all metal, teeth and frame, and even though it is swiss cheesed it is still far heavier than a spare polycarb piston I had lying around from a G&G. It shows almost no signs of any kind of wear and tear, and it probably was a factor in wrecking the spur and sector gears.

The pinion gear on this motor is in good enough shape to last for quite a long time, so I went ahead and kept it in the gearbox. Here's a shot of me toying with the motor height (this shot does not depict the final height)



I've put in a G&G sector and spur gear along with a G&G plastic piston. I spent a lot of time carefully shimming (using the start-with-the-bevel method), cleaning the gearbox bit by bit and relubing everything. I carefully adjusted the motor height according to the bevel shim and I've put blue loctite into the threading on the motor height adjustment screw.

This part is key. I've now seen two G&Ps damage a pinion due to a motor drop due to a motor height adjustment screw problem, and when I looked around on the net (Airsoft Retreat, Airsoft Mechanics, etc), I discovered this is a problem known to some gun techs. It seems that both regular G&P pistol grips and the Magpul'd G&P grips are susceptible to this issue. Thread lock your grips folks!

Now that the gun is back in business, with a 7.4V 1000mAh G&P battery, it's firing a consistent 352fps and feeds at around 15-16rps in full auto. I'm using my local shop's house-brand M4 mag and it seems to feed flawlessly as opposed to my PMAGs and stock G&P mag. The stock G&P mag and extras I got are assumed DOA and have gone back to the shop to await my testing of their house brand mag, but as of now, I'm pleased with what I've got.

After several failures brand new, I'm a little bit shaky on the reliability of this setup, especially since I'm not an expert at shimming yet, however if the worst that happens is a shredded piston, I'll be happy that it wasn't the gearset.

I'll close with some tips for G&P Canadian Carbine buyers, and buyers of G&Ps in general:

1) Replace the gears

2) Replace the piston (at least do this if you can't immediately afford doing tip #1... Though if you can't afford it a G&P might have not been the best choice for you).

3) Make sure your motor height adjustment screw is locked in place (with loctite or threadlocker or similar). Important!

4) Address weird firing noises as soon as you hear them, and whatever you do, don't keep firing. It'll ensure that if you have a motor height problem, you can still use your motor and won't shred your pinion. I've seen the pinion shredded completely on another G&P.

All that said, I would gladly buy this gun again (and any other G&P). Now that I better understand how to own one..

[oniwagamaru]

I too have a G&P. Thanks for posting this up! Now I can confirm that all of G&P's pinion gears are garbage! I have had 2 pinion gears strip on me even if I only have a couple of mags through the gun! For some reason though, my gears were all fine. It was just the pinion gear showing a lot of wear and tear. I think good shimming prevents breaking gears. Also, I would have to agree about the motor height adjustment screws.

[Kennytaker]

MaciekA - Great work on the post with detailed pics. love it.