newb gun question

[Lucuis]

Originally Posted by bareass

what are some of the prices for used guns? i've been looking at new guns and see that decent looking guns (metal internals, plastic body) are around 300ish.
so why wouldn't a used gun, of the same initial worth, be around 200?

Most the time the guns in the classifieds have had money put into them, so they are no longer stock.

[wildcard]

Bareass,

first off START SAVING NOW!

Here are some of the initial cost you have to pay up front, to be "happy" with this sport, Airsoft unlike paintball have a substantial investment up front and quite relatively low maintenance and operation cost later on.

Used quality AEG (please don't cheap out and buy clones, no matter how good they sound) buy from a quality brand and make sure it's local so you can try it out first. Get brands like King Arms, G&P, Classic Army, VFC - $400 - $600+ for package (mags, Gun, Battery)

Quality Goggles - $45
Chargers - $35 - $150
Vest - $40 - $200

Again I can't say it more clear don't cheap out or later on you will just spend more time and money getting shit fixed and getting frustrated from not being able to play will eventually turn you off from this sport.

[ThunderCactus]

There's quite a few people with the same mentality, thinking a $300 gun will hold them over for a year while they save money to buy a decent AEG.
Works for some people, but a lot people learn the horrible truth of the matter first hand. Once you buy that $300 gun, it may last a while, it might not. If it doesn't, good luck fixing it, or even finding someone who wants to work on it.
And when you finally have enough money to buy a mainstream AEG, you'll find nobody wants to buy your used chinasoft gun that wasn't that good to begin with, and you've just wasted a whole $300

Nobody here is trying to BS you into spending more money than you have to, we're just giving you hard learned advice.
There are 3 things you don't cheap out on: eye protection, your primary gun, and your boots. When it comes to those 3 things, you always get exactly what you pay for!

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by bareass

what are some of the prices for used guns? i've been looking at new guns and see that decent looking guns (metal internals, plastic body) are around 300ish.

Depends. I've seen some beaters/fixer uppers and "for parts" guns going for $100-150 but those will require a lot of work to get working, which means either knowing something about mechanical systems (just in case you're an engineer) or getting a gundoc to help you out with fixing it (which isn't cheap by any means). You can get some clones that have been upgraded to the tits for $500-600. You can get stock "name brands" for $900 if they've been upgraded and have accessories included. You can get used PTW's for $3500 (highest price I've seen, they're usually around $1700-1800 depending on whats in the package). Not to mention that most of the NIB guns aren't in fact as great as some of the ones you can find in the classifieds, I'm not saying they're crap but you can get better. It's like trying to pick food. You could get the generic no name Mac and Cheese (clone brands), or you could get the KD Mac and Cheese (well known name brand), or if you really have deep pockets you can actually make your own Mac and Cheese with real a cheese sauce (PTW (Professional Training Weapon, it's the exact same thing as real steel dimensionally, and weight wise or so I've heard)). Or if you know anything about snowboards, you could get an off name brand for some ridiculously low price but they're just a crap board, you could get a slightly known name brand (ie. Lamar), or you could get a "pro" board (Burton, K2, RIDE, Option, Forum, Nitro, Lib Tech etc.) it all depends on what you're looking for and how deep your pockets are.

so why wouldn't a used gun, of the same initial worth, be around 200?
i don't see why i can't buy something that is about 200-250 and use it for quite sometime. i don't think there is much of a airsoft scene where i am, (kitchener for school and windsor as home) so fielding won't be happening every weekend for me, i don't think.... could be wrong though.

These guns have usually been upgraded and have included accessories that the NIB gun doesn't come with, eg. better battery (and spare batteries sometimes), mags, red dot, external upgrades like rails and stocks, and a lot of the time they'll have internal upgrades. PS: Ontario has one of the most active communities in Canada, you're lucky in fact. I have to go for about 2 and a half hours to get to the field.

hopefully i'll be able to get to a game, and get AVed, and get searching for a gun... i would love some suggestions if u guys have them on decent priced guns that are a good bang for the buck... and i'll continue to research and shop.

That's the best plan since you'll have a wider selection to choose from and may fit your budget a lot better. Also consider doing a rental for your first game to make sure you want to dump your money into this. It's not something that should be taken lightly since you're basically spending a months worth of rent on "entertainment" and wants instead of an actual need (like food, or tuition).

thanks

So yeah, lay off the clubs and pubs for a while and I'm sure you'll be able to scrounge up enough money to start off with a decent setup. $650 and you should be good to for most things that includes everything that you should need except for things you may already have such as hiking boots (like I said don't "need" to use military boots to play however if you don't have any then consider picking up a set) and work gloves.

I'll keep you posted on some deals that I find for hiking boots if I hear anything but be sure to check out places like MEC (Mountain Equipment Co-op), Coast Mountain, in addition to any other place that stocks hiking boots even Zellers but you should have a clue of exactly what you want. One of my co-workers in the summer picked up a pair of CSA rated boots from Zellers last year for $50 and they were actually great but you should know what you're looking for to be able to discern the crap from the good stuff.

[Jimski]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Bareass,

first off START SHAVING NOW!

that's what I read at first, I was surprised.

[m102404]

listen to Thundercactus and Wildcard...they've done it over and over and seen 100's of guys go through starting into airsoft.

- save up for a "good" gun - $400-600
There are "packages" you can get on the classifieds...mags, gun, extras...for the same price as a new good gun.
- while you're saving up for the gun...get boots/goggles/vest/loader/bbs/charger/etc...

Don't rush...it'll kill you to take it slow...but it's worth it in the long run.

When buying a used gun....especially your first....BUY LOCAL...try it out before you buy and hold it in your hands. If a local guy won't let you see/shoot it...don't buy it. Be 100% satisfied with it in your hands before you seal the deal.

Tys

[surebet]

There is market information in my sig for the classifieds

[FryingPan16]

Hey im a newb. would a used g&g electric blow back m4 with smart charger, battery, .25 bbs, battery, 4 mags, and shooting glasses be good for $250. This would be my first aeg. Oh and its full metal except the lower receiver and shoots 360 fps.

[Kuro_Neko]

Manufacturer is generally more important then the style. Generally all airsoft aeg's work the same so how it looks like outside is up to you. Though the advice in the Airsoft Newbie Buying Guide about styles is good. Generally ak47, m16/m4 or mp5 are good starter gun styles due to the availability of accessories and upgrades.

For $200, the best you could manage is Aftermath stuff. Both the Broxa (full stock MP5) and the Kraken (AK47) are decent bargain basement guns, about $160 or so each. Stay away from Aftermath's Kirenex or Knight (both M4 variants) and the Lycaon (collapsible stock MP5) though, not a good rep.

If you're willing to go up to $300 you could get a JG. Yeah JG's are China clones but they're getting quite respectable nowadays. JG's M4 runs about $290. You could get one of the G&G cansoft (clear receiver) M4's for about $340. G&G is the cheapest of the midgrade guns. $400-$450 would get you an ICS which is a higher end midgrade gun. $500-$600 would get you a G&P, there's some debate on whether this is the lowest of the higrade guns or if it should rank higher. Either way they make nice guns.

If you can afford it, highgrade guns such as Tokyo Marui or Classic Army are the way to go. They're going to run you $600-$700. Though if the M4/M16 style is what you want then I'd recommend staying away from stock TM's, the barrel wobble and creaking are pretty bad on the stock TM M4/M16's (yes the new TM M4/M16's have fixed this problem, but the bulk of the ones in country are the old ones so best to just avoid them for now).

I did extensive research and settled on the Tactical Carbine version of the Classic Army M15A4 (basically a full stock m4) as my first gun. If an Armalite is what you're looking for then I think it's the best of all possible versions. You have the shortened M4 carbine barrel, which makes you less likely to smack your barrel off something when turning quickly, combined with the full stock which houses a large battery. Small batteries don't have near the run time of a large battery, not to mention that the reinforced slip ring (the ring that keeps the fore-grip on) is really stong. While this is mostly a good thing and a big step up over CA's previous M15 versions, it makes changing small batteries in the field very difficult if not impossible.

CA's M15A4 series in general is a big step up over their previous versions and as far as stock armalites go they're probably the best. All metal where the real steel version is, the plastic parts where the real steal version is plastic are made of high quality enhanced nylon fiber rather then abs for great texture and feel. Classic Army has a deal with Armalite so you get all the proper markings. Plus that deal also goes to show the quality of the manufacture, Armalite wouldn't put their name on a shoddy product.

Internally the gearbox is reinforced metal and all the gears are metal as well. It fires hotter stock then Tokyo Marui's as well, firing at 300-320 fps where your average TM only fires 280-300 fps.

All in all this is a great starter gun if you can afford it. Because it's all metal you don't have to worry nearly as much about breaking it and you won't get any of the wobble or creaking that is infamous in stock TM M4/M16's. Unfortunately affording it is the biggest problem, they're not cheap. For reference I got my CA M15A4 from the classifieds, upgraded with a bunch of Systema internals to fire 390fps, for $600 shipped which was a great price.

As you can probably tell, I'm a big fan of Classic Army. One thing to keep in mind about Classic Army is they now have two lines, a proline and a sportline. Originally they were easy to tell apart because the proline had the metal body and the sportline had a plastic body but recently CA has been releasing their sportlines with metal bodies. The price tag should still allow you to easily tell the difference, the sportline being $300-400ish and the proline never being cheaper then $500, usually more like $600 or more but it's still something to keep in mind. All the pros that I went over above were regarding the proline model. The sportline model has cheaper everything internally and externally.

There's alot of people that will expound the virtues of G&P as well. And I'll admit the externals of G&P are very nice, easily on par with CA, in some cases better. The reason why I don't say G&P over CA though is much the same reason why people weren't big fans of CA up until a few years ago: their quality control for the internals is not the greatest. That means a fair number of lemons. CA got a handle on this a few years ago and they've been making great strides in terms of their rep ever since, but G&P isn't quite there yet. This is simply my personal opinion and there are many people that would likely disagree with me, but it's something to keep in mind. ICS is about a cheap a gun as you can go and still get full metal out of the box, I haven't read alot about this manufacturer but needless to say it's not in the same league as CA or G&P. It's what someone on a budget but determined to get full metal would aim for. TM, due to Japanese law, are almost all abs plastic and fire alittle cooler then many guns but their internal reliablity is incredible. They will literally last for decades if left stock.

One of the perks of going with an M16/M4 variant is that mags are dead easy to come by and dirt cheap. You can get Star brand mags for like $5 a mag or less, plastic yeah but sturdy none the less (Star is also the only brand that makes realcaps too). Metal mags will run you a fair bit more, $15 to $30 a mag. There's no real reason to go with metal over plastic for mags except looks/realism. Though of course if you're going to go hicap then you might as well get metal ones. As to Brands, TM and CA make good mags. I've heard pretty good stuff about MAG brand mags as well. King Arms not so much, especially for M4/M16 mags. Star is always a good affordable fallback too.

Some people say you need to shell out for batteries, mags, camo, chargers and ammo in the begining. Most of that isn't necessary right off the hop. The stock battery will do you for awhile. Most of the guns come with a hicap (high capacity (300-600 rounds)) mag that will also do for awhile. I do agree that a good charger would be a sound initial investment, but not a total requirement, especially if you plan to get a good battery down the road and don't care if the cheap wall charger fries your stock battery. Camo isn't really required in the beginning either, just some dark clothes. Ammo, yeah obviously a requirement but even good ammo (BB Bastard) only costs $10 for two thousand rounds.

So truely, all you really need to start is the gun, a bag or two of ammo and good eye protection (which will run you between $30 and $50). That said, if you can afford it then it all helps. Camo would cost about $100, a chest rig or vest would cost another $100. A good loadout of mags, even the cheap Star mags, are going to cost at least $50. A good charger is at least another $50, with another $50 for a good battery. A sidearm is another thing that people like to have but isn't really necessary. A decent sidearm would cost you between $250 and $350.

Sidearms aren't really required right away so if you're on a limited budget then hold off on the sidearm for now. If you have the budget for it then what you want in a sidearm depends on two factors (besides cost of course) whether or not full metal is a must and exactly what model you're partial to. Certain manufacturers tend to make certain models better then others. If full metal is a must then the best choice that isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg is probably KJW, especially for the M9 which they do very well. You'll see alot of WE's around, they're cheap and full metal but tend to have problems, especially their 1911 models. KJW has a rep of having mag problems, but I have two KJW pistols and I haven't had any trouble with my mags. If full metal isn't a must then WA or TM would be very good choices.