My Freedom Could Be In Your Hands - Up and Coming Court Case (re: specarms)

Dracheous · December 5th, 2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saint

Will has already asked for community input in the form of letters from members that have directly dealt with him. Everything else is hearsay and doesn't apply.

If Will needs more from us, I'm sure he'll ask. We shouldn't be trying to run his defence, he has a professional for that. We're just a bunch of yahoos, we shouldn't think so highly of ourselves that we can take a man's life into our own hands.

Bingo...

Brian McIlmoyle · December 5th, 2008, 12:51

Submissions are done.. Which menas the Court won't look at or review any new information on the matter.

The only thing left is for the Judge to give her decision.

As lawdog says.. the defense is asking for 2 years less a day served in the community.. and the Crown is looking for 4 year in prison.. so likely it will be somewhere in between ... But until the judge sets down the sentence .. its all idle speculation.

What is the take away? Listen to Will, Know what you are getting into before you get into it.

You can protest that he is being railroaded for selling toys all you want.. but the FACT is the law does not see it that way. Replicas are prohibited for a reason.. The fact that you believe a law to be stupid does not mean that it does not apply to you.

This decision will be important ... I have no idea if Will will appeal.. but if he does .. then the best help you can offer is $ to pay for the appeal.

HaZarD SFD · December 5th, 2008, 13:21

At least if this is his first offence for federal and he gets the 4 years he can be fast tracked and only need to do 1/3 in jail if I remember correctly.. But I hope you get the Deuce less and stay outside. All the power to you and hope all goes the right way.. but in any case "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best!"

Drache · December 5th, 2008, 14:20

Sadly this case will become the PRECIDENCE over any others and sadly Will had to plead guilty....

Brian McIlmoyle · December 5th, 2008, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache

Sadly this case will become the PRECIDENCE over any others and sadly Will had to plead guilty....

Well he's certainly not the only person to be convicted of trafficing in Prohibited devices... so I don't think there is much of a precident to be set here.

its not as "ground breaking" as we may think.

Certainly its an important case for others similarly charged.. and an important case for people who choose to break the same laws.

From our perception this should serve to clarify the so called " grey area" of AS.. there is not much grey left in a prison sentence and criminal code conviction.

Drake · December 5th, 2008, 17:01

I think it's also important to not lose sight of what he was charged and convicted for; this isn't just an "OMFG airsoft" situation, as AFAIK, as with Peter Kang and others, this stems from the violation of a License and/or illegal importation (smuggling).

The fact that the terms of that license was broken probably has a very negative bearing on the entire situation, in contrast to Joe Schmoe who might try importing something, gets caught/seized, and receives a competitively friendly letter from CBSA giving him the option to appeal or have the item shipped into a jurisdiction where it's legal.

There remains AS in Canada being brought in legally, above board.

Erennert · January 2nd, 2009, 01:09

Are there any updates on this? I would like to know how this all played out. Hopefully for the better of will.

The Saint · January 2nd, 2009, 01:34

Sentencing date was moved to January 29th. We'll know when let Will know. Until then, keep this thread clean.

leebee · January 2nd, 2009, 02:49

the only way things are going to get changed is to put pressure on the people that draft up these laws. real guns are much easier to acquire for the criminal element, not to mention much more effective for their intended use. these people have a 'rep' to uphold after all.

i have seen the laws change subtly since 1977, when i first started in the shooting hobby. it has been a systematic disarmament of the law abiding public with very little opposition over the years. the biggest reaction came about with the gun registry as presented by alan rock. it is still there, albeit enforcement is questionable at best.

as mentioned, funds were not sufficient to continue, leading to the plea. so much for a fair and equitable trial. there is so much 'wrong' in this situation. it must be easier to prosecute where there is little to no 'experience' in air soft, than genuine nefarious personage.

education would seem the most likely avenue to follow, however, we are dealing with politicians. enough said.

lee

Lawdog · January 2nd, 2009, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache

Sadly this case will become the PRECIDENCE over any others and sadly Will had to plead guilty....

There is no precedential value that we need to be concerned about from a guilty plea in a court of first instance.

Ld

604DA9 · January 29th, 2009, 14:04

Hey Guys n Gals,

Well the day has come and my family, friends, and lawyer are all optimistic with the outcome today.

Again, thank you everyone for your input and concern.

I will be attending court at 2pm PST today.

I'll give you guys an update once I'm home.

Sincerely,

Will Wong
wong.will@shaw.ca

cndzn · January 29th, 2009, 14:07

All the very best Will!!!!

Rumpel Felt · January 29th, 2009, 14:29

Everything aside, what kind of fucked up "free" country do we live in when you do something that can be shown to harm no one and be completely legitimate yet still be slapped across the face like you're peddling a dangerous drug or plotting to blow up parliament or something....

Yes, we have laws and formalities for a reason....But how often does a case like this come along where it just doesn't make sense to apply the penalties....

Anyway, good luck Will.

kalnaren · January 29th, 2009, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpel Felt

Everything aside, what kind of fucked up "free" country do we live in when you do something that can be shown to harm no one and be completely legitimate yet still be slapped across the face like you're peddling a dangerous drug or plotting to blow up parliament or something....

Because unfortunetly that's not the way the majority of Canada sees airsoft.

But, to be honest, the issue here isn't airsoft. It's importing prohibited devices for purpose of sale to the public.

ujiro · January 29th, 2009, 14:41

Best of luck, all of us here are praying for you and your family, and for the judge to give wise and fair sentencing.

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December 5th, 2008, 12:51	#107
Brian McIlmoyle 8=======D Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	Its over Submissions are done.. Which menas the Court won't look at or review any new information on the matter. The only thing left is for the Judge to give her decision. As lawdog says.. the defense is asking for 2 years less a day served in the community.. and the Crown is looking for 4 year in prison.. so likely it will be somewhere in between ... But until the judge sets down the sentence .. its all idle speculation. What is the take away? Listen to Will, Know what you are getting into before you get into it. You can protest that he is being railroaded for selling toys all you want.. but the FACT is the law does not see it that way. Replicas are prohibited for a reason.. The fact that you believe a law to be stupid does not mean that it does not apply to you. This decision will be important ... I have no idea if Will will appeal.. but if he does .. then the best help you can offer is $ to pay for the appeal. __________________ Brian McIlmoyle TTAC3 Director CAPS Range Officer Toronto Downtown Age Verifier OPERATION WOODSMAN If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite

December 5th, 2008, 13:21	#108
HaZarD SFD Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ottawa	At least if this is his first offence for federal and he gets the 4 years he can be fast tracked and only need to do 1/3 in jail if I remember correctly.. But I hope you get the Deuce less and stay outside. All the power to you and hope all goes the right way.. but in any case "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best!" __________________ No Comment.

December 5th, 2008, 17:01	#111
Drake E-01 Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montreal, QC	I think it's also important to not lose sight of what he was charged and convicted for; this isn't just an "OMFG airsoft" situation, as AFAIK, as with Peter Kang and others, this stems from the violation of a License and/or illegal importation (smuggling). The fact that the terms of that license was broken probably has a very negative bearing on the entire situation, in contrast to Joe Schmoe who might try importing something, gets caught/seized, and receives a competitively friendly letter from CBSA giving him the option to appeal or have the item shipped into a jurisdiction where it's legal. There remains AS in Canada being brought in legally, above board. __________________

December 5th, 2008, 14:20	#109
Drache BALLET, TYPE: SELF LOATHING, ANALBURST Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2005	Sadly this case will become the PRECIDENCE over any others and sadly Will had to plead guilty....

January 2nd, 2009, 01:34	#113
The Saint Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Quebec	Sentencing date was moved to January 29th. We'll know when let Will know. Until then, keep this thread clean. __________________ "The Bird of Hermes is My Name, Eating My Wings to Make Me Tame."

January 2nd, 2009, 02:49	#114
leebee Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: marlbank	the only way things are going to get changed is to put pressure on the people that draft up these laws. real guns are much easier to acquire for the criminal element, not to mention much more effective for their intended use. these people have a 'rep' to uphold after all. i have seen the laws change subtly since 1977, when i first started in the shooting hobby. it has been a systematic disarmament of the law abiding public with very little opposition over the years. the biggest reaction came about with the gun registry as presented by alan rock. it is still there, albeit enforcement is questionable at best. as mentioned, funds were not sufficient to continue, leading to the plea. so much for a fair and equitable trial. there is so much 'wrong' in this situation. it must be easier to prosecute where there is little to no 'experience' in air soft, than genuine nefarious personage. education would seem the most likely avenue to follow, however, we are dealing with politicians. enough said. lee

January 29th, 2009, 14:04	#116
604DA9 Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC	Hey Guys n Gals, Well the day has come and my family, friends, and lawyer are all optimistic with the outcome today. Again, thank you everyone for your input and concern. I will be attending court at 2pm PST today. I'll give you guys an update once I'm home. Sincerely, Will Wong wong.will@shaw.ca

January 29th, 2009, 14:07	#117
cndzn Trader rating Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria, BC	All the very best Will!!!!

January 29th, 2009, 14:29	#118
Rumpel Felt Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Everything aside, what kind of fucked up "free" country do we live in when you do something that can be shown to harm no one and be completely legitimate yet still be slapped across the face like you're peddling a dangerous drug or plotting to blow up parliament or something.... Yes, we have laws and formalities for a reason....But how often does a case like this come along where it just doesn't make sense to apply the penalties.... Anyway, good luck Will.

January 29th, 2009, 14:41	#120
ujiro Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Burlington, ON	Best of luck, all of us here are praying for you and your family, and for the judge to give wise and fair sentencing. __________________ I love freedom and consequently America

My Freedom Could Be In Your Hands - Up and Coming Court Case (re: specarms)

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