Is it Illegal for a Minor to POSSESS an Airsoft Gun in Canada?

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

My main issue with everything here is:

It's one thing to have an opinion on who you think should own airsoft and who shouldn't... it's another to push that personal opinion on people when you don't have the authority to.

I don't see a problem, you can buy airsoft from 3 place. All 3 places require you to be 18 years old to buy it. Our fields require you to be 18 years old to play and *some* 16 years old.

So where is the problem??

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

<snip>

The CCC prescribes replicas as a NON-FIRING replica of a real world firearm. Airsoft does not fall under this category as far as law enforcement goes (NOTE: CBSA IS *NOT* THE LAW!) Law enforcement is more likely to handle airsoft guns as airguns rather than as replicas.

Because airsoft guns aren't clearly defined as replica firearms, they do not clearly fall under the same rules as (replica) firearms laws.

<snip>

Regarding the argument about airsoft guns being ruled as "replicas": If this argument holds true, then why hasn't law enforcement shut down AirsoftCanada's private sales forum? I think 99.9% of the sales that go on through there are made by people who don't own the paperwork to transfer replica firearms. AirsoftCanada advertises its buy & sell as Canada's largest. It's open and out there. It's not a secret. Law enforcement officers even participate in that area.

<snip>

Except for the glaring fact that replicas are classified as NON-FIRING replicas whereas airsoft guns can fire? This is why it's not so clear-cut.

<snip>

The idea that replica firearms can't fire is false and dates to pre-2003, back before C-10A clarified the issue on what constitutes a firearm based on ballistic performance.

The current definition for replica firearm is as follows:

Originally Posted by CCC

"replica firearm"
«réplique »

"replica firearm" means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;

Note the complete and utter lack of requirement on not being able to discharge projectiles.

As for not going after ASC's buy and sell section, my theory is that it's the same reason why police haven't shown up at games with a truck yet and why airsoft importation is even possible at all at the current limited rate. It's a ridiculous law that's impractical for them to enforce. ASC represents an attempt by the community to keep our collective noses clean by instituting an age restriction on buying and selling, law enforcement authorities has to recognize that to a certain extent. Why waste their resources on what's not actually hurting society?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Ronan

I don't see a problem, you can buy airsoft from 3 place. All 3 places require you to be 18 years old to buy it. Our fields require you to be 18 years old to play and *some* 16 years old.

So where is the problem??

The problem is the amount I get hassled by certain users to mute a minor, either through reported posts or through personal messaging.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

The problem is the amount I get hassled by certain users to mute a minor, either through reported posts or through personal messaging.

Give me your POWAH and i'll take care of it

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Airsoft guns exist in a quantum state..

Their status under the law is only evident when observed... what is observed.. depends on how it is used..

when we ( airsofters ) look at airsoft guns we see legaly owned items used for recreation.

When the police observe our use of them they see the same thing...

When police seize airsoft guns in drug raids... they see prohibited devices possesed for illegal use.

the item itself is of little concern to police unless used for illegal purposes.. this is why the law focusses on proliferation.. and pretty much ignores possession.

It is also why the trade of these items within our community which is perceived as "proper" use of these items by police is tolerated.

Because it is tolerated does not make it legal... any more than police not arresting you if they find you with a joint on you.. makes smoking dope legal.


Here is another analogy... I am over 19 so I can own as many bottles of Scotch as I want... but if I drink one and get in my car... I have now comitted an illegal act... despite that .. my scotch collection is still legally owned.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

I am over 19....

That's an understatement.

[Shirley]

I guess you have to add in this information into the FAQ.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Airsoft guns exist in a quantum state..

Their status under the law is only evident when observed... what is observed.. depends on how it is used..

when we ( airsofters ) look at airsoft guns we see legaly owned items used for recreation.

When the police observe our use of them they see the same thing...

When police seize airsoft guns in drug raids... they see prohibited devices possesed for illegal use.

the item itself is of little concern to police unless used for illegal purposes.. this is why the law focusses on proliferation.. and pretty much ignores possession.

It is also why the trade of these items within our community which is perceived as "proper" use of these items by police is tolerated.

Because it is tolerated does not make it legal... any more than police not arresting you if they find you with a joint on you.. makes smoking dope legal.


Here is another analogy... I am over 19 so I can own as many bottles of Scotch as I want... but if I drink one and get in my car... I have now comitted an illegal act... despite that .. my scotch collection is still legally owned.

Perectly well put, and exactly what I'm trying to get across. Because of this liquid state of airsoft, it's not fair for the moderation team to drop a blanket ruling ban against airsoft discussion if you're a minor... get what I'm saying?

[mcguyver]

Well, how can you ban a user for getting a gun? Most of the time, we don't know all the details behind the "ownership" if it that at all. I know quite a few players out west who play with their kids, and their kids "have" a gun, but it really belongs to their father.

We sort of had a similar discussion in the Age Verifier's section, and I recall saying that it's better to have them a part of the community and be able to influence actions or educate, than to toss them out and leave them to their own devices (not a good idea).

But I do agree with restricted access. All the classifieds should be age-verified access only, parts, gear, everything.

If the community has rules that are more stringent than the law, what's wrong with that. Would it be better to have the law more stringent than ASC's rules? The community has done a pretty good job on keeping gun sales out of sigs, cleaning up the classifieds section for improper gun sales, etc.

What more can you really do?

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Because of this liquid state of airsoft, it's not fair for the moderation team to drop a blanket ruling ban against airsoft discussion if you're a minor... get what I'm saying?

Adults, stop pestering ILLusion about banning every other minor.

Minors, stop giving adults reasons to pester ILLusion about banning you.

Something like that?

[Sergeantmajor]

Originally Posted by CCC
"replica firearm"
«réplique »

"replica firearm" means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;

my eyes got stuck on this little piece of the whole paragraph.

its not the first time i read it either, i saw it when i took my firearms course. it was written in the book.

to tell you the truth, reading : "[...]to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm." what is being said in that paragraph is that a replica of an antique firearm is prohibited.

thus, AEG's, GBB'sand other form of airsoft guns shouldnt be considered illegal devices, and prescribed as replica's.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Sergeantmajor

my eyes got stuck on this little piece of the whole paragraph.

its not the first time i read it either, i saw it when i took my firearms course. it was written in the book.

to tell you the truth, reading : "[...]to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm." what is being said in that paragraph is that a replica of an antique firearm is prohibited.

thus, AEG's, GBB'sand other form of airsoft guns shouldnt be considered illegal devices, and prescribed as replica's.

I'm tired but if i read what you wrote correctly... then you are an idiot. If i misunderstood what you wrote, then sorry.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Sergeantmajor

my eyes got stuck on this little piece of the whole paragraph.

its not the first time i read it either, i saw it when i took my firearms course. it was written in the book.

to tell you the truth, reading : "[...]to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm." what is being said in that paragraph is that a replica of an antique firearm is prohibited.

thus, AEG's, GBB'sand other form of airsoft guns shouldnt be considered illegal devices, and prescribed as replica's.

.......................

*starts crying*

Please reread that paragraph carefully. You can't just pick out part of a sentence like that and ignore the rest of it. That paragraph most certainly did not say what you think it said.

*continues crying*

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by The Saint

.......................

*starts crying*

Please reread that paragraph carefully. You can't just pick out part of a sentence like that and ignore the rest of it. That paragraph most certainly did not say what you think it said.

*continues crying*

*comforts The Saint in a un-gay manner*

[Sergeantmajor]

alright...wipe your eyes, i think your vision is shitty

reread the paragraph, theres only one period in that sentence, lots of comma's but only one period.

all along the paragraph it describes what they mean by replica, they mentioned in the middle that it replicated a firearm, at the end of the paragraph it stated that the devices that were prohibited were those which replicate AN ANTIQUE FIREARM.