CBC: The Trouble with Fake Guns

chester · February 23rd, 2009, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiftsup

Who watches the CBC nowadays?

Soccer/hockey moms...
Politicians...
Lawyers...
Police officers...
Potential airsoft enthusiasts (ok, maybe this one's a stretch

phantastik · February 23rd, 2009, 11:15

Socialism Everywhere

The Saint · February 23rd, 2009, 12:13

Let's try to keep the knee-jerking and finger pointing to a minimum. Like Brian said, it's all just idle speculations until we see the show. Idle speculation on how Canadians other than yourself sucks is not productive.

El Cactus Loco · February 23rd, 2009, 12:43

i think its interesting that this is bringing up the larger issue of how we portray our selves to the "outside" world, and how we behave within our own community. i for one was surprised when i joined ASC to see the amount of care that goes into making sure that no one under 18 attains a gun from these boards. but if what some of you are saying is true, and "outsiders" are perusing this forum, with out participating in it they will not see the responsibility that we strive so hard for, they will only see the immature and (to some) crude things that happen here, just for example, how can we claim to be a mature and responsible community when people on these boards have things like "Let's kill then rape them, then use their blood as lube!" in their sigs. i dont mean to point anyone out in particular, just using that as one example in this thread alone. i personally thought it was a funny/weird quote, but the "liberal media" wont, im afraid, and if we are going to be under the microscope like this perhaps we should consider "cleaning up" around here, to improve the perceived image we give off. now im sure you would find the same things on any paintball forum, but they have already achieved public acceptance. its hard enough trying to convince soccer mums and what have you that imitation replica firearms are safe and legal with out having them think we are a bunch of unstable weirdos. we sure as hell cant do anything about the CBC, but we sure can do something about the way we conduct ourselves, and i think that if we have all our ducks in order, we might make a more... positive impression on passers by. just my 2 cents...

phantastik · February 23rd, 2009, 13:16

Don't really know if catering to closed minded people is really our thing right?

I think this forum's record for control and procedure of selling and handling airsoft guns pretty much speaks for itself

El Cactus Loco · February 23rd, 2009, 13:37

anything and everything must be considered in the interest of preserving our sport. i mean, c'mon, dont tell me that forum freedom is the sword you would have airsoft die upon. close-minded people are not going to "see the light" on their own, they are more than happy to cling to their views to the grave, unless alternatives are presented to them. that is our job, to present ourselves and our sport. to clearly distinguish the line between small-time criminal waving a airsoft gun and the responsible player and community member. to do this we must start where we can, right here in our own house.
this forum does have an outstanding record, but that longstanding social responsibility will be for nothing if we are wrongly branded.

The Saint · February 23rd, 2009, 13:44

El Cactus Loco, the staff does what they can to keep the unconstructive comments in check, so you're preaching to the choir.

Brian McIlmoyle · February 23rd, 2009, 13:46

That this is a private sandbox for airsofters to play in .. and say what they want and present whatever image they want because "its behind closed doors" is a fantasy

Law enforcement
CBSA
and the media come here every day .. this is as public as a streetcorner..

I get singled out and contacted by media because I use my real name on this public forum.. I don't labour under the falacy that this place is anonomous.

That said.. I think that forums are best if they are self regulating.. within the confines of clear parameters....

It is easy to be an offensive Boor everyone has that in them... it is harder to be articulate and thougtful...

It comes down to how you personally want to be perceived in public. as it is the collective nature of those cumulative perceptions that determines if ASC is a dumping ground of boorish oafs or a clearing house of all things positive about airsoft shooting sports.

phantastik · February 23rd, 2009, 14:28

Just makes you wish that the media was held up to the similar standards. Other than that I have no problem with people making documentaries, as long as they are objective.

chester · February 23rd, 2009, 14:53

1. I work in the media industry and I can say firsthand that the media is under the microscope (and therefore held up to public standards) 1000% more than the airsoft community.

2. Documentaries are almost never objective. They typically take an angle and find ways to present that story. Think of Michael Moore. The media usually have a bias one way or the other - take the CBC (left) vs the National Post (right) as an example.

3. One should EXPECT a certain level of scrutiny for the sport of airsoft. It uses replica firearms to conduct military-style games and training. As a practitioner, I love the sport and know how fun and safe it is given the maturity of most of the people doing it. But as a parent and citizen, I'd sure as hell want to know what's going on in my neighborhood.

JamesBond_007 · February 23rd, 2009, 15:15

Realistically, even if they take a stab at the sport, there's not too much we can do until that happens. Even then there is little to be done.

If you look at airsoft outside ASC, that's what the public sees. To them, it's not a sport, it's not organized, and it's just something that little kids do in their backyards.

I'm skeptical to fully support the idea of going fully public with the sport, but the public ignorance does hurt the community. Hopefully something can happen where we can get a 'happy-medium' of information out about us, just so people don't think we are creepy people who just love to shoot stuff.

Even then, until something is done country wide the sport will be a Grey area. I like the idea of having a PAL/R-PAL to own, and that would also further enforce the 18+ rule.

chester · February 23rd, 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond_007

Realistically, even if they take a stab at the sport, there's not too much we can do until that happens. Even then there is little to be done.

That's a pretty passive attitude. What can be done is a sensible dialog when the opportunity arises. Which is exactly what BM did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond_007

If you look at airsoft outside ASC, that's what the public sees. To them, it's not a sport, it's not organized, and it's just something that little kids do in their backyards.

As Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. Do your part to make it a legitimate, responsible sport and in time it will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond_007

I like the idea of having a PAL/R-PAL to own, and that would also further enforce the 18+ rule.

Especially if it helps on the supply and pricing side of things, I'd be good with regulation as well.

Double Tapper · February 23rd, 2009, 16:02

Maybe just move replicas from prohibitive to just regular pal would help.

Brian McIlmoyle · February 23rd, 2009, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester

Especially if it helps on the supply and pricing side of things, I'd be good with regulation as well.

Regulation does cut both ways... in the current regime we have pretty liberal access and the bar to enter the activity is currently pretty low ( particularly with the clear receiver guns proliferating now)

I know there are a lot of people who see these turns of events as "the end of airsoft as we know it" and I don't dissagree.. but I'm not one to fret over what is a reality.

To preserve the exclusivity of this activity which has been both a boon and a curse... more regulation would tip the balance back to keeping the community within the 1%er realm.

Its a complex question... it seems pretty extreem to require licensing to possess what is in the end.. a toy gun... but if this is what is required to forestall an outright ban... which is what many in government and LE would like to see... then what choice is there?

rustysniper · February 23rd, 2009, 20:20

Just seems to me that until we (as an airsoft community) actually get a collective voice and start lobbying...this kind of stuff is going to happen.
Unless I am missing something...we really don't have an active voice do we?

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February 23rd, 2009, 11:15	#77
phantastik Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Burlington ON	Socialism Everywhere __________________ Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет

February 23rd, 2009, 12:13	#78
The Saint Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Quebec	Let's try to keep the knee-jerking and finger pointing to a minimum. Like Brian said, it's all just idle speculations until we see the show. Idle speculation on how Canadians other than yourself sucks is not productive. __________________ "The Bird of Hermes is My Name, Eating My Wings to Make Me Tame."

February 23rd, 2009, 12:43	#79
El Cactus Loco Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ottawa	i think its interesting that this is bringing up the larger issue of how we portray our selves to the "outside" world, and how we behave within our own community. i for one was surprised when i joined ASC to see the amount of care that goes into making sure that no one under 18 attains a gun from these boards. but if what some of you are saying is true, and "outsiders" are perusing this forum, with out participating in it they will not see the responsibility that we strive so hard for, they will only see the immature and (to some) crude things that happen here, just for example, how can we claim to be a mature and responsible community when people on these boards have things like "Let's kill then rape them, then use their blood as lube!" in their sigs. i dont mean to point anyone out in particular, just using that as one example in this thread alone. i personally thought it was a funny/weird quote, but the "liberal media" wont, im afraid, and if we are going to be under the microscope like this perhaps we should consider "cleaning up" around here, to improve the perceived image we give off. now im sure you would find the same things on any paintball forum, but they have already achieved public acceptance. its hard enough trying to convince soccer mums and what have you that imitation replica firearms are safe and legal with out having them think we are a bunch of unstable weirdos. we sure as hell cant do anything about the CBC, but we sure can do something about the way we conduct ourselves, and i think that if we have all our ducks in order, we might make a more... positive impression on passers by. just my 2 cents... Last edited by El Cactus Loco; February 23rd, 2009 at 12:47..

February 23rd, 2009, 13:16	#80
phantastik Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Burlington ON	Don't really know if catering to closed minded people is really our thing right? I think this forum's record for control and procedure of selling and handling airsoft guns pretty much speaks for itself __________________ Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет

February 23rd, 2009, 13:37	#81
El Cactus Loco Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ottawa	anything and everything must be considered in the interest of preserving our sport. i mean, c'mon, dont tell me that forum freedom is the sword you would have airsoft die upon. close-minded people are not going to "see the light" on their own, they are more than happy to cling to their views to the grave, unless alternatives are presented to them. that is our job, to present ourselves and our sport. to clearly distinguish the line between small-time criminal waving a airsoft gun and the responsible player and community member. to do this we must start where we can, right here in our own house. this forum does have an outstanding record, but that longstanding social responsibility will be for nothing if we are wrongly branded.

February 23rd, 2009, 13:44	#82
The Saint Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Quebec	El Cactus Loco, the staff does what they can to keep the unconstructive comments in check, so you're preaching to the choir. __________________ "The Bird of Hermes is My Name, Eating My Wings to Make Me Tame."

February 23rd, 2009, 13:46	#83
Brian McIlmoyle 8=======D Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	The perception That this is a private sandbox for airsofters to play in .. and say what they want and present whatever image they want because "its behind closed doors" is a fantasy Law enforcement CBSA and the media come here every day .. this is as public as a streetcorner.. I get singled out and contacted by media because I use my real name on this public forum.. I don't labour under the falacy that this place is anonomous. That said.. I think that forums are best if they are self regulating.. within the confines of clear parameters.... It is easy to be an offensive Boor everyone has that in them... it is harder to be articulate and thougtful... It comes down to how you personally want to be perceived in public. as it is the collective nature of those cumulative perceptions that determines if ASC is a dumping ground of boorish oafs or a clearing house of all things positive about airsoft shooting sports. __________________ Brian McIlmoyle TTAC3 Director CAPS Range Officer Toronto Downtown Age Verifier OPERATION WOODSMAN If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite

February 23rd, 2009, 14:28	#84
phantastik Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Burlington ON	Just makes you wish that the media was held up to the similar standards. Other than that I have no problem with people making documentaries, as long as they are objective. __________________ Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет

February 23rd, 2009, 14:53	#85
chester Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto	1. I work in the media industry and I can say firsthand that the media is under the microscope (and therefore held up to public standards) 1000% more than the airsoft community. 2. Documentaries are almost never objective. They typically take an angle and find ways to present that story. Think of Michael Moore. The media usually have a bias one way or the other - take the CBC (left) vs the National Post (right) as an example. 3. One should EXPECT a certain level of scrutiny for the sport of airsoft. It uses replica firearms to conduct military-style games and training. As a practitioner, I love the sport and know how fun and safe it is given the maturity of most of the people doing it. But as a parent and citizen, I'd sure as hell want to know what's going on in my neighborhood. __________________

February 23rd, 2009, 15:15	#86
JamesBond_007 Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: St.John's, Newfoundland	Realistically, even if they take a stab at the sport, there's not too much we can do until that happens. Even then there is little to be done. If you look at airsoft outside ASC, that's what the public sees. To them, it's not a sport, it's not organized, and it's just something that little kids do in their backyards. I'm skeptical to fully support the idea of going fully public with the sport, but the public ignorance does hurt the community. Hopefully something can happen where we can get a 'happy-medium' of information out about us, just so people don't think we are creepy people who just love to shoot stuff. Even then, until something is done country wide the sport will be a Grey area. I like the idea of having a PAL/R-PAL to own, and that would also further enforce the 18+ rule. __________________ Old Buy/Sell Ratings

February 23rd, 2009, 16:02	#88
Double Tapper Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The land of the over regulated and the banners	Maybe just move replicas from prohibitive to just regular pal would help.

February 23rd, 2009, 20:20	#90
rustysniper Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canal Flats BC	Just seems to me that until we (as an airsoft community) actually get a collective voice and start lobbying...this kind of stuff is going to happen. Unless I am missing something...we really don't have an active voice do we?

CBC: The Trouble with Fake Guns

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