NEWBIE QUESTIONS

[Greylocks]

True, they can choose to apply whatever they want. BUT... the easyest to apply are the Replica laws and that leaves you to argue it with the police.

Right or wrong, they can do that. The Replica laws have teeth. It's about the only clear thing out there.

Not that what I say matters, but I had that discussion with a police officer in the past and that's the information they would use. Because they have the discretion to do it. In the field, you dont have time to figure out loopholes, you use what works.

As you just said, the younger you are the worse it gets. The Replica laws are clear about who can own/use one, and where too. The only problem here is underage people who refuse to follow basic rules, common-sense, and applied laws because they are too mature for those things.

Waiting a few months or 2 years to be legally responsible for your self is too hard for their maturity to cope with.

[Debbie]

So just to clarify, everything that greylocks has been spouting for years IS NOT A LAW, just his INTERPRETATION of the Law. Now can we all get along....LOL....PS I was 18, 20 years ago, so you can lose that argument.

[Greylocks]

I interpret nothing, just telling you what the police tend to do. Up to you to test the theory.

PS, read the laws about Replica guns. Interpret those all you want. Have fun.

[Boche]

This thread has been very informative. It has shown me that if I want the real scoop on firearm legislation I'll ask the Wolfpack guys, and not the blustering blowhard Greylocks. Another fine example of Grey's 'expertise' being completely deconstructed.

[Debbie]

Why do I feel like breaking into The Wizard of Oz's.......Hail Hail the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead

No not at all grey, you have been stuffing misinformation down people throats for way too long and have probably scared 200 good airsoft candidates off of the sport.....that you yourself don't play....why because you have pissed everyone in Ottawa off and they wont let you play.

You seem to be quite the fraud. Two days ago what you claim was LAW you now say is actually up to individual Police Discretion. I have never seen such backpeddaling before.

Originally Posted by memel

This thread has been very informative. It has shown me that if I want the real scoop on firearm legislation I'll ask the Wolfpack guys, and not the blustering blowhard Greylocks. Another fine example of Grey's 'expertise' being completely deconstructed.

We're not experts, but a few members are pretty involved in shooting sports. It's not a team-wide thing by any means, but there are probably a half-dozen members who actively sport shoot.

We're all on the AR15 craze now thanks to Scarecrow. You thought airsoft armalites were addictive? Buying an AR is the first step in a long expensive customization project that ends when you lose your ATT or sell the rifle....

[Viper20]

Originally Posted by Debbie

Why do I feel like breaking into The Wizard of Oz's.......Hail Hail the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead

No not at all grey, you have been stuffing misinformation down people throats for way too long and have probably scared 200 good airsoft candidates off of the sport.....that you yourself don't play....why because you have pissed everyone in Ottawa off and they wont let you play.

You seem to be quite the fraud. Two days ago what you claim was LAW you now say is actually up to individual Police Discretion. I have never seen such backpeddaling before.

Grey is right when it comes to what is the law and that the police use their discretion. The law is not black and white, it is infact grey. This means nothing is stright forward, Canada is based on Case Law, well most of it, Quebec uses Napoleonic Law.

Case Law is based on discretion, where Napoleonic Law is based on stright from the books "You did this so your punishment is this"

[Debbie]

Airsoft is NOT illegal

[Viper20]

No one is saying it's illegal

[Jayhad]

i am,
i will also say i am the only authorized volentary airsoft drop off in the country. so now that airsoft is illegal I will politely ask all of you to put all of your airsoft stuff into a big box and send it to me, I will then safetly dispose of your illegal airsoft. PM me for my address..

[HaZarD SFD]

OMFG this thread is still alive!

[Greylocks]

Read carefully one last time; the only laws they can currently apply are laws about Replicas.

They can choose not to apply those laws, but they exist. If they did not exist, we'd be able to have any airsoft gun we want from anywhere in the world.

Customs chooses to apply them, the police can choose to apply them or not. Does not change the fact those laws exist.

Like me or not, I dont really care. If you want to push the laws, go right ahead. If you want to stake what you believe on how a police officer feels like that day, be my guest. Again, good luck to you, you'll need it.

Every year, even every month, we have newbies who want to pull a miracle out of their ass. They quote gun laws, PAL, all kinds of things that have zilch to do with where airsoft stands.

If you dont want ANY shit with airsoft, treat them like real guns but apply the laws that relate to Replicas. Debbie, I dont know you, or where your'e coming from. If you've known me for years it's news to me.

You speak for all the Ottawa players too? Cool.

So since you are the new expert, please advise all the newbies on what they can do. You're welcome to the 'job'. Cheers.

PS, I am a curious bastard so I thought I'd remind Debbie of something she posted, direct quote too:

Originally Posted by Debbie

A replica or toy gun that is used in any crime is considered real and will receive the same penalty.

Maybe her own advice has changed?

Originally Posted by Greylocks

Read carefully one last time; the only laws they can currently apply are laws about Replicas.

I've never actually heard of someone being confronted by police and challenged under the premise of "possession of a prohibited device", specific to legitimate use of airsoft or otherwise, although everyone likes to worry about it. When someone does something stupid and the police get involved, IF they're charged at all it's usually in relation to firearms offences, not possession of a replica handgun.

That being said, they can charge you with all kinds of things, notwithstanding their decision to use laws on prohibition against replicas. So no, Replicas are not the only laws "they" can apply.

Originally Posted by Greylocks

PS, I am a curious bastard so I thought I'd remind Debbie of something she posted, direct quote too.Maybe her own advice has changed?

What's wrong with that statement? A replica used during the commission of an offence is deemed a firearm for the purposes of enforcement. That's not the same thing as stating it's illegal for someone under 18 to posses an airsoft gun.

[Scarecrow]

GL, the only objection I have and repeatedly have come back to in this thread is your references to law. I agree with you that there is a lot that is left to the discretion of a police officer. BUT replica laws are typically not the ones they resort to to formulate a charge. Ask any police officer on our team and they will tell you that outright. We know - we've had this discussion fireside and its an old discussion. They will use firearms laws (any device used as a 'gun' in the commission of a crime will be deemed a firearms and thus you will be charged as such) and weapons dangerous to the public peace, and then they can seize the guns as evidence without any pretext whatsoever, replica or otherwise. Replica firearms laws are obscure and not typically something a police officer will use when the much more ubiquitous weapons dangerous charge sticks a lot easier and is a lot easier to argue in court and get a conviction on - and there is no age limit on that (save the young offenders act, but the charge stands).

You've reluctantly admitted you were wrong regarding the law, yet continue to make the same arguments. Being 'illegal' and being 'ambigious' under the law are two different things. Being 18 has nothing to do with it other than how it might look at the scene, if the scene is a crime at all. Get off that track and stop advising people that way, its simple incorrect information.

Originally Posted by Viper20

Grey is right when it comes to what is the law...

No he is not and its be shown he was wrong. Period. End of discussion. Go back and re-read the thread.

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

I've never actually heard of someone being confronted by police and challenged under the premise of "possession of a prohibited device"

Prohibited devices are specifically listed. Airsoft and airguns are not listed as prohibited devices, ergo, you would never see this type of charge related to an airsoft gun.

Originally Posted by Greylocks

Read carefully one last time; the only laws they can currently apply are laws about Replicas.

Incorrect. For all the reasons I just stated.
- Posession of a firearm
- Weapons dangerous to the public peace
- Use of a firearm in the commission of a crime

Show me ONE conviction of a breech of the replica laws with an airsoft gun and I will eat my hat.

[Greylocks]

Easiest to apply are the Replica laws. And since we all admit it varies for who applies them it's one I was told by another officer.
At the Foxden, in person, the officer was on duty.

They can apply anything they can think of, I said that too. Again, I made the horrible mistake here of not posting an entire encyclopedia of reasons.

Are we now that politically correct?

We can explain in excrutiaing details (and we have) or simply say "wait until you are 18 and can prove it".

This now gets said every day to people who say we're wrong. I'd love a solution.