GBBRs and Milsims....

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Why is it when I re-read my threads, they always sound angry?

You have a small angry man in your head?

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by Danke

You have a small angry man in your head?

Probably several, and they are fighting over the last brain cell.

[pancakedestroyer]

I was an early adopter of gas guns in our area. I think only a couple people were running a more serious rigs (dayton gun)
I was using a WE Scar. I gamed it, I liked it. Great for skirmishes. It hated fluctuations in temperature. Got to hot outside, shot like a demon. Got to cold, didn't like to shoot at all. Gas mags leak, It is the nature of the beast. You can reseal them but eventually they'll leak. Sure when you have a failure on a GBBR you can fix it right there but when you've got a finely tuned AEG you've got years before something could go wrong, or you just want to crack it open to check everything.

Anyway, for longer games the gun wasn't the best to run. I've only seen a couple guys using gas guns at the more serious and longer games around here and they all bring AEGs as well. Most end up using them before the end of the day.

10 mags, 28 rounds per mag and away I go. I don't need a GBBR to give me a more immersive playing experience.

[Jester84]

where do ebbr's sit in this discussion?

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by Jester84

where do ebbr's sit in this discussion?

On the shelf at the store (where they belong)

[hollywood...]

Originally Posted by Danke

I salute you magnificent bastards in this thread who somehow against all the odds field a gas rifle and live to tell the tale.

best comment in this thread!

[CarpentryHero]

LoL live to tell the tale

[Huron]

I ran a GBBR at Deadfall a few years back. I hadn't adequately tested my mags for leaks and fixed them, but they held gas well enough. By nightfall, the temperature had dropped significantly and the seals started to give, leaving me with maybe 4 or 5 serviceable mags out of my 10.

Our position was ambushed at about 0530, and my return fire sounded something like this:

Pop pop pop pop fssssssssssssssssst
Fuckfuckfuckfuck (I didn't know I could reload this fast)
Pop pop pop pop pop fsssssssssssssst

Etc.

None of what I just recollected matters though. Double tapping that opfor player during our night raid on their base was the most satisfying airsoft experience I'd had up to that point. The troubles I had were more due to lack of experience with GBBRs, and now that I know what to expect things run smoothly. I would absolutely field it again. And again, and again.

[JEEPEE]

From what I see so far is that a REAL CAP ONLY rule should be applied in any milsim game. That is to me the real definition of a milsim game.

It's as simple a that no? We do run a lot of REAL CAP GAME in Qc and it rise up the games to higher ground!

From what I read in this thread the only major advantage of the GBBR is that you don't have to enforce a real cap rule as the magazines are already at the real capacity (hmm hmm exception to the WA that have 50, Then the milsim real cap rule isn't respected anyway :P)

After that, having an AEG, PTW, P* or GBBR doesn't change anything to the chances of being it by a 30+rps M4 with a drum mag lol

I'm more a GBBR guy to be honest... But the lack of reliability shown by the technology so far made me get back to an aeg. Though I do run a KJW M4 as they are known to be the most reliable GBBR'S on the market.

Also, as many said before... The gun is not the only thing that will make you a milsim player... The overall gameplay will determine the nature of an airsoft game (milsim or skirmish) and not the tool used to play that game.


*** EDIT *** I also would like to point out that the energy shown by GBBR's should be taken seriously. There's reason why a general 400fps max rule is used. The 400 fps should be thrown in the garbage if we can have a GBBR that shoot 400fps but can do as much ¨Damage¨as a 450+fps gun.

[ThunderCactus]

I'm +1 on the realcap bandwagon, BUT there are certain limitations
It's easiest to say realcaps only when you have a GBBR and don't have a choice, or have a PTW and it shoots like a laser so you only NEED realcaps.
But with some stock aegs, the fact is you just can't hit the broadside of a barn from 100', so you'll expend more ammo to hit the same target that I would.

So then one would answer, well it's the player that makes the gun.
Not entirely true, although you do learn how to sneak up and reposition yourself better when you don't have a choice, but snipers don't learn how to hit targets at 2km with a .22
If the gun can't hit anything to begin with, you just won't learn how to be accurate.
That being said, you could have a laser rifle and still never learn to aim if you always have unlimited ammo.

My point is just to get you to understand WHY some people would be highly opposed to realcaps.
We don't have to make special exception for them, but we do have to understand that because their guns can't hit crap, they're going to be at a serious disadvantage.

So 4 things;
1) upgrade your gun, it'll make you a better player
2) go against the grain, use lowcaps instead of midcaps, it will make you a better player
3) if you do have a PTW, only load your mags to 50-70 rounds, your gun is good enough already without using midcaps lol
4) we can play whatever style we want, but understand that some people just like to shoot eachother with toy guns and aren't into milsim in the least

[JEEPEE]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I'm +1 on the realcap bandwagon, BUT there are certain limitations
It's easiest to say realcaps only when you have a GBBR and don't have a choice, or have a PTW and it shoots like a laser so you only NEED realcaps.
But with some stock aegs, the fact is you just can't hit the broadside of a barn from 100', so you'll expend more ammo to hit the same target that I would.

So then one would answer, well it's the player that makes the gun.
Not entirely true, although you do learn how to sneak up and reposition yourself better when you don't have a choice, but snipers don't learn how to hit targets at 2km with a .22
If the gun can't hit anything to begin with, you just won't learn how to be accurate.
That being said, you could have a laser rifle and still never learn to aim if you always have unlimited ammo.

My point is just to get you to understand WHY some people would be highly opposed to realcaps.
We don't have to make special exception for them, but we do have to understand that because their guns can't hit crap, they're going to be at a serious disadvantage.

So 4 things;
1) upgrade your gun, it'll make you a better player
2) go against the grain, use lowcaps instead of midcaps, it will make you a better player
3) if you do have a PTW, only load your mags to 50-70 rounds, your gun is good enough already without using midcaps lol
4) we can play whatever style we want, but understand that some people just like to shoot eachother with toy guns and aren't into milsim in the least

1) I partially agree. No need to invest tons of money to have a reliable AEG. A good barrel + hopup usually makes dratisc changes. A player can still have the best gun but cannot aim well or run to make a milsim objective lol (Exemple running to save a VIP). Having some military basic tactics can improve a player no matter wich gun he use. I also include the comms in the player upgrade since in milsim it is mandatory.
2) totally agree and wish more people can understand this
3) I'm already doing it lol
4) Then the problem is the game itself. If you cannot have the guys who want to play a milsim then you will never play milsim. Again, the players make the game not the gun used. Also, it is the job of the organizers to clearly fix the rules of the games. If a player is IN for a milsim game, I hope he understand that he might not shoots over 5000bbs in one day.

But again, I do agree that the GBBR have great OTB adavantages for the milsim games.

Oh and also please do not compare real deal vs airsoft games. I know snipers do not train to kill at more than 2km in airsoft. It's a game that we try to make it as real as it can. I repeat, it's a GAME.

*** EDIT *** Also, a lot of games in here use a 300bbs on you limitations (To make it as real as possible, 30rds/10 mags) and no Hi-Cap. It's now the player that choose the magazines he wants to use in game. That 300rds is also a good compromise for regular games to avoid those rambo M4 drum mag guys. And to be honest, I don't see Hi-cap since3 a while and people tend to appreciate it. It eliminate by itself a major part of the overkills compared to other games I've been.

[ThunderCactus]

it's fine to compare, especially when you're talking about playing milsim lol
People always get the comparison wrong though. It's easy to say "oh I could shoot that guy if I had a real M4", just like if you lost a street race against a honda civic you could say "oh I could have beat that guy if I had an F1 car"
Well you don't currently have a real M4, or an F1 car.
And if you had an F1 car, and you were racing, it would only be against other F1 cars.
And if you had a real M4, chances are pretty high you'd be engaging people with other real firearms lol

So more realistically, if you had a real M4, and the guy you're trying to shoot had a real gun, and you were on open ground, chances are pretty good you'd start shooting a lot further away than 200 feet, like as soon as you could see the guy, like 500m? sound reasonable? Well then you'd have a hard time trying to hit that guy. But you'd be all like "man I could hit that guy if I had a sniper rifle"

Basically, just scale everything down to being reasonable.
Max range of an M4 is 500-600m, but you won't be trying to one-shot people at that range, wind and foliage are going to play with 5.56 out at 400m.
Max range of an airsoft gun is 240-300ft, but you complain about the same shit. The foliage and wind affect the round a bit more, but basically if you're engaging someone at 280ft with an airsoft gun, you have to compare it to shooting someone at 600m with an M4

It's still a game, but I find the comparison works great when you think about it rationally

[JEEPEE]

I'm sorry man bit you will not change my mind on that. Milsim simulates operations, objectives, communications, etc... Airsoft as is limitation but also does the fields. I've been in incredible games where people crashed down from a chopper in the scenario had to survive with only their pistol and it was a blast.

Again, if the guy can't it shit with is gun it's probably because he's not willing to pay for upgrades... Imagine paying for 60$+ each mag lol

I already said that GBBR are to me great OTB platforms but seriously it's everyone who are willing to pay 600$ for magazines.

Anyway, I simply wanted to point that it's not the gun that makes the game a milsim but the player. Following orders, teams drills, comms... This is milsim! Shooting a guy because you can hit it far away but only sit on your ass to make kills is not.

[JEEPEE]

Oh and for the comparison with the cars... This one reflects it better.

You can drive the best F1 but if you drive it the wrong direction then you will never win a race. You might even get the best timelap but you will still get beat by a honda civic because he was following the main goal... Winning the race by driving in the right direction.

If you do not follow the objectives in a milsim game then you already lost no matter the number super long range kills you made

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by JEEPEE

Anyway, I simply wanted to point that it's not the gun that makes the game a milsim but the player. Following orders, teams drills, comms... This is milsim! Shooting a guy because you can hit it far away but only sit on your ass to make kills is not.

Yeah totally agreed, but I think you missed my point with the comparison. The point was you need to play to the restrictions of an airsoft gun, and not try to compare it to something its not.