Bioval BBBMAX Airsoft Ammunition

[Donster]

i think just the fact that they do shatter should result in their disqualification from any airsoft event.

[Drakker]

I'm more worried that they might be a fire hazard. They seem to focus light a bit and glass has been know to cause quite a few forest fires... But these BBs have been in use for a while in Europe, I suppose that if European Airsoft fields suddenly started catching fire, we'd know by now.

[Cheesevillage]

Originally Posted by Donster

i think just the fact that they do shatter should result in their disqualification from any airsoft event.

Think of the forces involved in breaking one of these as described by members here on ASC.

Originally Posted by pusangani

...We did manage to break one at the store by putting it under a dolly and stomping on it, the bb didn't shatter until the 2nd stomp. Your gun would have to be shooting well over the field limits to put out enough fps to launch it hard enough to break like that...

In other words, if it shatters and takes someones eye out, its going fast enough TO KILL.

Its this type of thinking which holds back progress.

[Sha Do]

1- I was going to mention that MadDog has used them, but I see he has already posted on the thread.....good points bro, and yeah, I heard no complaints from your victims.
2- I do a lot of squish tests on various brands, weights, and types of BBs using a pair of pliers, and I found that the Biovals do shatter...or more correctly, they impact to powder. No splitting, cracking, or the like....they just turn to powder like grains of sand. This however takes a lot of effort, and I mean a heck of a lot more of a squeeze in comparison to a MadBull or Bastard BBs....or even my Straight 0.36 BBS.
3- For those of you who do not know why 6mm 0.43 weight BBs are not used on gaming fields, it is for the same reason as to why I will not use the bioval BBs: All other BBs I use in my BA have some type of give to them (ie, on impact the BB actually starts to flatten, spreading out the kinetic energy over a larger impact point). The 0.43s tend to be such a hard composite (similar to Biovals) that they will not flatten, and therefore they transfer the same kinetic energy through a smaller impact point, resulting in a deeper, more penetrating transfer of the kinetic energy.

It is not under ideal conditions that we worry about using such BBs, it's the preventable injuries that result from idiots accidentally discharging their airsoft at close proximity that we are worried about. So, I am not going to say they should be banned, however, I will not endorse or use them personally.

My $00.02 worth....
SHA DO

[pusangani]

Just got back from the shop, did some testing with a KJW M700 Takedown gas BA rifle (500-550 Fps w/ 0.2g) thanks to MoreToasties for the idea

Here's what I found, I shot only 2 surfaces as I didn't feel like lugging the rifle home to test on a variety of masks, so I shot a cheapo ACM Goggle and the Clear plastic lower from on of my Cansoft SCAR's

This is what happened:

Shot one side of the SCAR receiver with a regular plastic BB (Sekito SIIS .25) from an inch away, the receiver cracked, on the second shot to the exact same spot, 2 pieces of plastic fell off from inside the magwell, not sure where they came from exactly and the plastic bb cracked but did not shatter.



Next I shot the other side of the receiver (magwell again to be fair) and this time, the receiver did not crack or random plastic pieces fell off. Instead, I got small dimples in the plastic, with no damage to the BBBMax bb at all, like Maddog said, these bb's bounce around quite a bit so it was hard keeping track of where they were going, I did make it a point to retrieve them to make sure they hadn't shattered.



Repeated this 3 more times, and got more dimples but no cracks in the plastic, the shadow of a crack seen in this pic is from the opposite side of the receiver.


Next, the goggles, these aren't rated but they still held up to the 500+ BBBMax projectile that I fired at it, 2 shots to the exact same spot. First shot made a bad scuff and a small dent and the second shot pushed the dent deeper, again the bb's bounced away without shattering.

[BlackRain]

Science in progress .... such a wonderful thing to see. Now for all intents and purposes it would take one hell of a jacked up gun to get one of these BB's to shatter on impact from what we are seeing here. Now looking at a broken receiver from a regular BB vs the non broken receiver from the Bioval BB shot I would choose the latter. I would rather have a ding in my gun then have to replace the lower receiver.

Sha Do.... how much more pressure would you say it took to powder that Bioval BB, and at how many FPS would you estimate the Bioval would have to be traveling to achieve this reaction?

[tunabreath]

Huh. So according to pusanagi's test there, maybe the Levante Labs testing was on to something after all with their claim that the BBBMAX, having a more elastic impact, does in fact transfer less energy to the target by retaining more energy in itself and having a shorter impact impulse time.

I'm fairly close to doing some BB testing of my own. I'm still rounding up some locally available and commonly used brands, as well as BBBMAX and some aluminum and steel BBs.

[pusangani]

The way I see it, unless you are using 500fps+ guns with no MED's indoors where the purpose of the game is to shove your muzzle into the enemy (or his gear) and pull the trigger, then you have nothing to fear from these or any other bb brand out there.

This was just a test to see how safe/dangerous they are, I'd like to note that I did all the earlier tests before ever gaming with them and putting others at potential risk.

[Blackthorne]

I think them shattering is a pretty slim chance given they are essentially glass. The tests we did would indicate that unless you got a BB with some factory defect, you are gonna have to be WAY OVER 500 fps to break them.

I have seen examples of them breaking to shards however. The difference being how the pressure was applied. A long slow application (e.g. a vice or hydro-press) generated powdering, fast spiked applications (e.g. dropping a heavy weight from height and the sled being caught on the first bounce to stop a second blow) rendered sharding, and nasty ones at that.

I've seen plastic BB's shard too, but not quite as sharp or hard to see.

But the risks are the risks, it's up to the field and the individual to decide whats an acceptable risk. This is the laser discussion all over again.

Bottom line is I am responsible for what comes out the muzzle of my gun. For me, on a personal level, I don't trust the company, so I have no faith that I won't get a bad BB in a batch that might have a defect and hurt someone. Had the company marketed itself better, that might not be the case.

[13Fido13]

I personally have a pack of the .27 weights. Ive decided not to use them on a field while shooting at other people, instead I'll only be using them at CAPS events where I know they'll never reach that high of a velocity.

Chances they'll have issues are minimal in a situation like this.

We could probably classify bio bbs that are mistreated in this same category of danger.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

....This is the laser discussion all over again.....

WTF!?!? Don't shine a laser through these mystical glass spheres...it'd melt the sun.

Thanks for posting up Pus...nice to know no-one has died yet. Keep trying though.

After a CAPS match...there's LOTS of broken BBs (white ones) already. From the close ranges to the 500fps+ gas guns...if these things will break into shards, that's bad news for Brian's gym and all the barefoot martial arts guys that use it after us.

So far as ricochettes go...it's not rare to have someone shoot a window frame at point blank (I think the last one I caught was Betty's window frame shot out of a gas M4...right in the nuts). I've caught several high speed rebounds already RO'ing matches. We've all seen what happens when the backer boards are oriented to square...and those ricochettes are travelling the length of TTAC3 (down range 2/3rds...and bouncing back all the way to the firing line).

So anything to reduce the bounce...that's good for CAPS.

Field use...m'eh, whatever.

[Azathoth]

On the other BBBMax threads I've been saying the EXACT same things for a while now. Safe for airsoft, bio inert. Excellent shot to shot consistency.

I've shot these things at 700FPS with a Tanaka M700 on a 30 degree day with the power bolt. They don't break against the fence, and they didnt penetrate a 0.1mm thick lexan RC car shell at point blank range. To get this thing to shatter is going to take MUCH more force. I'll have to dig up the PM but scarecrow has had a lab test done

Originally Posted by scarecrow

Data
Softening Point 1683°C
Density 2.20 x 103Kg/m3
Annealing Point 1215°C
Strain Point 1120°C
Rigidity Modulus 32 x 106KN/m2
Continuous Operating Temp 1000°C
Compressive Strength 20 x 106KN/m2
Electrical Information
Tensile Strength 70 x 103KN/m2
Electrical Resistivity 2 x 1019 ohm cm at 20°C
Shear Strength 70 x 103KN/m2
2 x 106 ohm cm at 800°C
Moh’s Hardness 6
Dielectric Strength 10KV/mm at 20°C
Total Metallic Impurities 10ppm (Typical)

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by 13Fido13

I personally have a pack of the .27 weights. Ive decided not to use them on a field while shooting at other people, instead I'll only be using them at CAPS events where I know they'll never reach that high of a velocity.

Chances they'll have issues are minimal in a situation like this.

We could probably classify bio bbs that are mistreated in this same category of danger.

Originally Posted by m102404

WTF!?!? Don't shine a laser through these mystical glass spheres...it'd melt the sun.

Thanks for posting up Pus...nice to know no-one has died yet. Keep trying though.

After a CAPS match...there's LOTS of broken BBs (white ones) already. From the close ranges to the 500fps+ gas guns...if these things will break into shards, that's bad news for Brian's gym and all the barefoot martial arts guys that use it after us.

Oh I will, don't worry about that

After the last CAPS match, Brian vetoed the use of them as they are hard to clean up, he said that he still finds them rolling around a week after

[MADDOG]

Danger Danger, somebody please think of the children!

Why the hell would anyone be worried about these, they are not going to shatter. In fact they would stay intact where others would break.
If everyone uses the same protection they have always been using, rated glasses, goggles, mouth guards or full face masks you will not have an issue. Teeth will chip and bleeders will happen no matter what BB you use especially with a heavier weight.
If you choose not to use any protective gear for those areas, that is up to the individual and a recognized risk in this sport.

When they start coming out with eye protection made from windshield glass, then I will become concerned.

[BlackRain]

Originally Posted by MADDOG

Danger Danger, somebody please think of the children!

Why the hell would anyone be worried about these, they are not going to shatter. In fact they would stay intact where others would break.
If everyone uses the same protection they have always been using, rated glasses, goggles, mouth guards or full face masks you will not have an issue. Teeth will chip and bleeders will happen no matter what BB you use especially with a heavier weight.
If you choose not to use any protective gear for those areas, that is up to the individual and a recognized risk in this sport.

When they start coming out with eye protection made from windshield glass, then I will become concerned.

+1