How many of you guys use a red dot?

[8bitninja]

I believe all this conversation highly depends on how invested the player is. If you play 1-2 CQB games a month or maybe a field game, an ACM will do just fine. I won't pretend to be an expert but I do have over a dozen reflex/red dot ACM sights and they do vary in quality very much. For example, I have one Aimpoint JH400 replica shear the elevation screw as soon as I tried to adjust. I have another version that has a fuzzy reticle. One of the two Aimpoint Micro clones has such a large MOA and bloom that it couldn't be "2 MOA" as listed by the seller.

The rest have held "relative zero" well enough for my purposes. As long as you understand the limitations and are not having to live with it day in and day out, an inexpensive one will do. Seeing a little ghosting or my a bit of my own reflection is not a deal breaker for the recreationalist.

Lastly, I have reflex/red dot sights on all my rifles because I lend them to friends when we play. It's far easier for someone to "pickup and go" with a red dot than it is to teach them to sight irons -- especially since those folks might only play 2-3 times a year at best. An inexpensive (not crappy) red dot gives them a better generalized idea of where they are shooting and fun for those few hours.

So, different strokes for different folks. I'm not going to say inexpensive red dots are awesome (ugh, my first $20 NC Star really is crap), but it may be sufficient for one to enjoy the game. If and when you get serious, go ahead and invest in an optic on par with the price of your gun -- but I hazard a guess that many folks won't have the discipline/skill to shoot a consistent grouping for that to matter.

What I will say is this... I have a little bit more disposable income (or obsession) than most and hence have multiples of things (i.e. Gold Match, sights, rifles). If you choose to go the cheapie route, there is a much higher chance you could get one of those lemons (fuzzy reticle, broken screw). Still, with a decent seller you can have recourse if you have lots of time and patience.

[docholiday]

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

When you guys say you use aimpoints and eotechs, are talking real or replica?

I'm going faint thinking you guys strap RS sights on to your guns, but hey... if you got the cash go for it.

I'll stick to my iron sights for outdoors.

I use all real optics for airsoft, EOTech, Holosun, Aimpoint etc., from my experience replica versions of the above optics do not hold up to the long term abuse and are pretty much a waste of money.

"Good" replicas of the above cost around $50-$60 and are likely to break, you can have a Holosun for $200. If you play a significant amount of airsoft, that does not seem like an outlandish amount, especially since it will outlast a traditional replica.

Additionally the performance in terms of glass clarity, retention of zero, adjust-ability and night vision compatibility among other things make real optics far superior. Aside form that if you shoot "real-steel" guns you can swap them over.

[Chairs]

they also hold up to physical abuse much better than the replicas. And if they don't they tend to have better warranty too. I'm a huge vortex fan for that respect as they have life time warranty and will replace damaged optics no questions asked.

[BioRage]

You can find decent used RS optics on CGN for like $150.

TRS-25 Bushnell would run you better then depot and other china reps imho, but hey, who am I to convince you to buy real. People learn after a while from buying repro and fake shit, they last you maybe a good year.

Most rep's can't handle my GBB's anyways

[Ricochet]

Plus 1 to real steel. Although you can get a few decent replicas out there.

I run Magpul MBUS flip up sights. I like them in the thick brush and CQB, but that work pretty well everywhere.

[dmitril]

Originally Posted by Drakker

100m is outside the range of airsoft guns (except a very few high FPS super tweaked guns). This is like saying a .22 round is inaccurate because you can't hit a target at 1.5km like you could with a .50 round.

There is a video of a guy hitting a 100m target with r hopped rifle at ~400fps about 8/10 times, he did spend some time dialing in. But nm that even at 50m, which is well withing airsoft rifle range your accuracy is going to be shit compared to rs. And no amount of rifle upgrade will fix it because a sphere is a bad aerodynamic shape and generates lots of drag/vortexes which add a significant element of error for such a light projectile. My point being is people use cheap china dots for plinking with success when they dont break/hold zero, doubt you need more accuracy than that for airsoft and reliability is not as much of a concern with lack of recoil.
My opinion is people are being gear whores for no good reason. Yes an expensive red dot has a finer and crisper dot but when has that mattered for airsoft where you are in sub 100m range. Then again, this is a hobby and if you have money to spend on rs rds then why not? Just don't bash cheap stuff as automatically bad, most of it is but there are exceptions.

[docholiday]

Originally Posted by dmitril

...,doubt you need more accuracy than that for airsoft and reliability is not as much of a concern with lack of recoil.
My opinion is people are being gear whores for no good reason.

Abouse and shock is not just related to recoil ... getting in and out of a vehicle, climbing through windows, falling on concrete etc. you can easily ram your optic into something, a real-steel optic will make it out alive a replica one will most likely not from my past experience.

Originally Posted by dmitril

Yes an expensive red dot has a finer and crisper dot but when has that mattered for airsoft where you are in sub 100m range.

Has mattered for me a ton especially in low light situations and even more so in combination with night vision devices. Fake once have very poor low light settings and no night vision settings at all.

Originally Posted by dmitril

Then again, this is a hobby and if you have money to spend on rs rds then why not?

That is what it boils down to if you have fun with a replica optic and it works for you at that price point that is all that matters.

However the bottom line is real optics will outperform the replicas and the more competitively priced real-steel optics are not even that much more expensive than the clones.

[waylander]

I have to say that if you're willing to spend $60 on a "decent" repro then $130 for a bushnell red dot is not much more.

I started with repro's and will not use them anymore. A simple knock to the gun while putting it on a table after removing from my bag has caused them to lose zero... then I have to spend another 5-10 minutes on the field with a screw driver trying to re-zero it. Saying they are usefull for cqb... well my MP5 can hit within a 1" circle 9/10 times from 80' which means I can usually hit the edge of a helmet sticking out from cover on the first shot just by sticking my dot on it. That gives me an edge over the other guys that miss or hit the cover thereby causing the guy hiding to duck down and now you've lost your shot.

Sure it's just airsoft and sure it's just a hobby but I don't see why you wouldn't get every advantage you can when a RS red dot can be had for $130....

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by waylander

I have to say that if you're willing to spend $60 on a "decent" repro then $130 for a bushnell red dot is not much more.

I started with repro's and will not use them anymore. A simple knock to the gun while putting it on a table after removing from my bag has caused them to lose zero... then I have to spend another 5-10 minutes on the field with a screw driver trying to re-zero it. Saying they are usefull for cqb... well my MP5 can hit within a 1" circle 9/10 times from 80' which means I can usually hit the edge of a helmet sticking out from cover on the first shot just by sticking my dot on it. That gives me an edge over the other guys that miss or hit the cover thereby causing the guy hiding to duck down and now you've lost your shot.

Sure it's just airsoft and sure it's just a hobby but I don't see why you wouldn't get every advantage you can when a RS red dot can be had for $130....

You're probably talking to those who are happy enough with their JG and CYMA at the end of the day.

Nothing wrong with that, just different taste for everyone.

[waylander]

Oh for sure... to each their own. I don't look down or anything on those with lower incomes, in the end it's about having fun. You don't NEED all these expensive accessories to play, they just enhance the experience for those that can.

People use RS stuff all the time. PC's, holsters, rail systems.... etc. Optics are really no different. No one is saying you should go out and buy a $600 RS aimpoint or eotech but even a holosun, bushnell or vortex are really not that expensive.

I personally only use red dots (especially indoors) as I've had laser surgery, my night vision has suffered. That plus the fact that even though I'm right handed I'm actually left eye dominant. Using a red dot with both eyes open off sets those disadvantages that I have. Plus my income allows me to invest a bit more in to the sport so why not? Hell, you should see my RC collection...

[dmitril]

Ah well I tricked out my aug and got a Firefield 1-6x scope on it only to realize it hasn't really improved my accuracy over a 16CAD red dot from aliexpress. The good thing about a 16$ red dot is you don't need to worry about it being damaged by a stray bb so no need for a bb shield which would distort your rs rds worse than cheap glass does. Though I have to agree real rds feels way nicer than a cheap one.

P.S. Im starting to feel like a cheap rds salesman, I gotta stop now..

[waylander]

Originally Posted by dmitril

The good thing about a 16$ red dot is you don't need to worry about it being damaged by a stray bb so no need for a bb shield which would distort your rs rds worse than cheap glass does.

Well a Vortex has a no questions asked, lifetime replacement policy.... so why use a shield at all? This isn't just about distortion either, it's about holding zero, durability... etc.

[Drakker]

Originally Posted by dmitril

There is a video of a guy hitting a 100m target with r hopped rifle at ~400fps about 8/10 times, he did spend some time dialing in. But nm that even at 50m, which is well withing airsoft rifle range your accuracy is going to be shit compared to rs. And no amount of rifle upgrade will fix it because a sphere is a bad aerodynamic shape and generates lots of drag/vortexes which add a significant element of error for such a light projectile. My point being is people use cheap china dots for plinking with success when they dont break/hold zero, doubt you need more accuracy than that for airsoft and reliability is not as much of a concern with lack of recoil.

Haha, when shooting inside using heaby BBs, I can hit a standard IPSC popper target repeatedly at 45m with most of my rifles (some with iron sights too). That's about a two inches target. Hell, I can hit it with my Hi-Capa pistol, not that well, because you know, non-braced pistol, but still doable. I don't pretend to be a magical gun doc that knows everything or a crazy good shooter, because I am neither. BTW, one of these rifles happens to be a completely stock Cyma Thompson. I maintain that you can have great accuracy with airsoft guns and still think you need to use a well tuned gun.

[ThunderCactus]

Even at 200ft, if your shitty replica T1's dot glares out a foot wide area at that range, it going to be hard to aim for small body parts.
But it all comes down to what you're willing to put up with, right?
Can't blame a guy for wanting to save $800 on a sight, can't blame a guy for spending $900 on a sight because he wants better clarity, rigidity, and a crisp dot.

[Kingsix]

Strikefire Vortex Sight, even co witnesses with the irons.