What is the best M4? [Guide for Beginners] (Sticky Please?)

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

@Superhog: Mmm, for those that can afford multiple guns perhaps. But this is mainly a thread for a BEGINNER gun, i.e. first gun.

In general beginners do have multiple guns. I know a person that has a cheapo AEG M4 and also have three pistols. A lot of newbies buy a pistol or two first then shop around for the rifle.

Also most newbies ask for advice but end up buying the opposite.

[ThunderCactus]

Rule of thumb with G&P was use KA mags. I agree their air nozzles and mechbox alignment is sketchy though.
Every damn time I take apart a G&P it loses 60fps until you get the mechbox realigned just perfectly to the barrel lol

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

@MattG666: Amoeba's are generally regarded as a step up from a basic Ares. From what I've heard, they aren't bad at all. Will have to add that in an update.

@ThunderCactus: I agree; that's why I recommended AEG's instead of GBBR's as a beginner gun.

@Azazoth: I will hopefully update this a few times a year if/when I get new information. On that note though, opinions on Dytac/Deepfire/more recent guns you think are suitable to put on a beginner M4 list?

@Ricochet: Holy that's a long paragraph, although I think it does mostly confirm what I've written as the main thread (please tell me if I'm wrong on that).

@Superhog: Mmm, for those that can afford multiple guns perhaps. But this is mainly a thread for a BEGINNER gun, i.e. first gun.

@Morphine117: I will have to update and add G&G sometime to the list as a budget beginner M4, whenever I'm not too busy.

@Amoki: I don't have any experience with ICS, so I don't feel qualified to give an opinion on them. Split gearbox design is nice and convenient, but I don't know what the quality of it is nor how well it shoots. Also, you mentioned it is a great piece AFTER shaving the 2nd tooth and replacing the motor, which isn't ideal for a beginner (unless they pay a tech/gundoc to do it immediately after purchase, which again, is not ideal). I know that G&P's aren't compatible with some magazine brands, but I've never heard of FPS gain or loss like that... Their receiver externals are beautiful though, which is why a lot of builds use their bodies (other than that non-closing cover).

In my opinion their is no real reason to put any manufacturer on this list that is not readily available in Canada. Which basically leaves

King Arms
KWA
G&G
G&P
VFC
ICS
ARES
LCT
CYMA

GAS:
KJW
WE
GHK
P*


Unless you want to fully disclosed how to self import then having a more comprehensive list would then be beneficial, and make more sense. I have yet to see a deepfire or DYTAC complete AEG in Canada in the last 10 years, including some really odd ball gun brands is truly a waste of your limited time. I wouldn't even include TM, classic army or JG.

Canada is a huge country, their could be geographic differences in what is readily available. I suspect that Ontario/Quebec has a far larger variety of brands of guns available due to bootlegging from south of the border, Alberta appears to be dominated in order by these brands.

G&G
KWA / KA
VFC
PTW

Speaking of which. I would add into the guide, Do not buy a sidearm if you are a newbie, Buy a SECOND long gun preferably one that shares magazines with the first one you bought.

Honestly IMO from observing stock guns being opened in fields (keep in mind I don't touch anything AEG unless it's a hardball gun shooting 600+ nowadays) All stock guns are pretty much good enough out of the box, assuming you are not buying the "el cheapo" version IE SPORTLINE etc. I would say that 96% of players didnt buy the gun based on brand, but on how it looks and what was available at the store when they walked in with a handful of cash.

[Datawraith]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

In my opinion their is no real reason to put any manufacturer on this list that is not readily available in Canada. Which basically leaves

King Arms
KWA
G&G
G&P
VFC
ICS
ARES
LCT
CYMA

GAS:
KJW
WE
GHK
P*


Unless you want to fully disclosed how to self import then having a more comprehensive list would then be beneficial, and make more sense. I have yet to see a deepfire or DYTAC complete AEG in Canada in the last 10 years, including some really odd ball gun brands is truly a waste of your limited time. I wouldn't even include TM, classic army or JG.

Canada is a huge country, their could be geographic differences in what is readily available. I suspect that Ontario/Quebec has a far larger variety of brands of guns available due to bootlegging from south of the border, Alberta appears to be dominated in order by these brands.

G&G
KWA / KA
VFC
PTW

Speaking of which. I would add into the guide, Do not buy a sidearm if you are a newbie, Buy a SECOND long gun preferably one that shares magazines with the first one you bought.

Honestly IMO from observing stock guns being opened in fields (keep in mind I don't touch anything AEG unless it's a hardball gun shooting 600+ nowadays) All stock guns are pretty much good enough out of the box, assuming you are not buying the "el cheapo" version IE SPORTLINE etc. I would say that 96% of players didnt buy the gun based on brand, but on how it looks and what was available at the store when they walked in with a handful of cash.

I live in the GTA, so there's lots of stores to choose from and they have different stock which is really nice. For big stores, TA stocks some more obscure brands like Deepfire and Dytac, M1 stocks lots of ICS, ASD has lots of gas guns, and I'm pretty sure if you ask, some of the smaller retailers are more than willing to special order guns they don't usually stock. I didn't consider outside the GTA though, thanks for bringing that up.

I wouldn't recommend a Cyma M4 when there are better brands for the same cost (G&G, Ares, maybe JG). I would recommend one of their AK's as a beginner gun, but the thread was dedicated to M4's specifically because that's the most universal platform we have.

Budget conscious beginner M4 brands would be Ares (preferably their Amoeba line), G&G, maybe ICS (still no experience, so I'm kind of hesitant about putting them on the list), yes?

Sidearm, yes agree with what you said (but then this was a guide for a beginner M4...).

As for the walk in and buy... that's kind of why I want to try and provide a way for them to start researching instead of just randomly buying something they have no idea about. Pretty sure informed consumers would be happier with their purchase than somebody buying a junky POS based on looks alone. Don't forget, the sportlines look pretty similar to the higher ends and beginners probably won't be able to tell the difference as they are mainly internal and since FPS is similar and the sportline is cheap, they'll probably end up choosing that.

@Superhog: Yeah, I know. But nothing we can do about that. If they're smart, they'll take this community's advice and odds are, they'll be more satisfied with it and save more money in the long run. There are a few users who did that I think (I hope anyways).

@ThunderCactus: But G&P's usually work alright out of the box, right? So that issue is only if they start opening it up and tampering with it, and if they were using it as a base gun for a build/upgrade platform, then they'd be getting a tech to work with it who hopefully knows what they're doing. I mentioned G&P in the high-end upgrade section only of the thread for that reason.

[ThunderCactus]

ICS are good out of the box, the only issue with them is their external compatibility

G&P I consider still an upgrade platform gun. They never did fix the issue with the gears and the pistons are still hit and miss. So you could have a G&P last 3 years of very hard use, or it could break a gear axle the first game you use it. And their aptly named "explosive" piston heads are almost guaranteed to break after a year of use due to their weak design.
You don't buy a G&P for internals, you buy it for externals and then upgrade the shit out of it.

Even then, VFC is proving to be the all around better platform. Similar build quality and durability, with much better stock internals.

But G&P still has the best designed M249 on the market by far.

[Azathoth]

ICS is a solid brand, the early canada edition guns were awful, now that Canada gets the same guns as everywhere else it's much better. Proprietary hopup for some models and external is annoying. As a Gun tech I can bash the split gearbox with tappet plate as being really silly but for a newbie to maintain the gun it's a big step in the correct direction.

M4 budget, buy used from a reputable person on classifieds, you can save 50% plus on the entire gaming package, gun, mags, batteries, rig etc

EDIT:
Agree with Frank, G&P is the rice tuner AEG, arguable it's the Honda Civic of the airsoft world, built to the original TM spec, compatible with basically every aftermarket part internal/external. It's easy to re-thread receivers etc.

VFC depending on the model and series anywhere from slightly worse to slightly better than G&P external, internally better out of the box.

[DICE Airsoft]

There are best M4's for different budgets, if you budget is really low (150-200) go with a JG or G&G Combat machine, Mid tier(200-350) King arms, G&G G4's(Metal bodied G&G) and ICS, High tier (400-600) look at G&P, Tokyo Marui, VFC, and G&G Top Tech, and if budget isn't an issue at all, get a Systema PTW.

[Datawraith]

Did a slight update to the thread.
May add a realism section a bit later that includes Systema PTW, KWA RM4 ERG, TM Shock, and Bolt.
Thanks everyone for your input and please continue to do so as you see fit.

[ThunderCactus]

Id call the ptw a premium aeg before id call it realistic.
its just an extremely well built M4 with a functional bolt catch, and takes RS externals.

[Antikythera]

I think people underestimate Ares. Their Amoeba line is ridiculously good out of the box with a tight bore barrel, quick change spring, micro switch trigger. The only downside for myself is the polymer body but it's growing on me, the weight reduction is very nice but I'm use to running 6 gas mags and gas m4.

[Ricochet]

Ares has pretty good externals, mediocre internals and terrible proprietary parts and track record. Due to those facts they're just best avoided. Considering the cost and the lack of support, there is no reason to ever buy one. Honestly it's just an expensive headache. For the same price you can get a VFC that does better in all the areas Ares are good and good in all the areas Ares are bad. Ares is a company best forgotten in today's market. The ONLY reason to even consider an Ares is if they alone made a specific gun you want. Even then, at least for me, I wouldn't buy one.

[ThunderCactus]

I've personally worked on a honey badger, and I gotta say their new stuff is actually pretty impressive.
Just took a barrel group to make that gun amazing.

[Antikythera]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I've personally worked on a honey badger, and I gotta say their new stuff is actually pretty impressive.
Just took a barrel group to make that gun amazing.

That's exactly the gun I'm basing my Amoeba love on. Was using it last night and it felt really nice and worked very well.

[ThunderCactus]

Well it's not impossible for a shitty company to suddenly start making some decent guns. I mean just compare G&G between now and 2006.

[ThunderCactus]

This pretty much has to be updated annually.
As much as my opinion of TM, CA, and G&P still mostly ring true, I've largely refrained from commenting on current quality of airsoft guns because my information is mostly out of date.
I haven't worked on many AEG's since switching to a PTW, so I really don't know what's still crap and what's still decent.
And to anyone else that is using 8 year old first hand experience to describe how awesome their CA gun is; please stop, because a 2006 dodge truck is no fucking comparison to a 2014.