Comments and Notes: VFC SCAR L/H, VFC SR16, VFC M4 Sopmod, ICS AKS74U, ICS AK74M, ICS GALIL AR, ICS SIG 552/551 and others

[Danke]

If you're going to chop it up get the DBoys VFC clone.

If you're making a VSS be the first guy on the block with a GBB version.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by m102404

that's a tough one...the RS body is sized differently from "regular" AEG AK's...whereas the VFC AK is "normal"...so for airsoft mods the VFC might be a better base. But for RS mods, the Real Sword might be better. Honestly...dunno.

The front ends are similar though...the RS is a right pain in the ass to take apart...the fit is really really tight. (i.e. pound with a hammer and wood block to get them apart). Nice part is...being all steel the RS just gets pounded back together and it's like brand new.

Steel is steel...other metal is not.

Tys

... You know that there's 2 set screws holding the RS barrel on right?

I've worked on a handful of these guns and they've all been SUPER easy to take down completely... no hammer required..

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by Danke

If you're going to chop it up get the DBoys VFC clone.

If you're making a VSS be the first guy on the block with a GBB version.

.... That would be GHK right? Sorry I haven't really kept up with the companies and renaming and stuff. (Also since this is a pet project of mine I might as well spring the money to make it a GBBR so.... this is going in a totally different direction than I originally imagined).

Sorry to detract from the thread but in short if VFC = pro for these guns then I'm sure the quality will translate over to their other lines of guns.

Also some constructive criticism is that maybe you could do a shooting test next time you're out in the field or something, I'd like to see a grouping at various distances and the consistency of the shots FPS wise.

[m102404]

Ok...brain dump part 2.

This time mostly about ICS rifles...full metal builds again, no hybrid plastic stuff.

Before the ICS notes...just a followup on the VFC SCARs. As reassured by others, reassembly of the lower got easier and easier once the position of the selector levers were figured out. Again...top marks on consistency and quality levels.

First up the ICS Galil AR (because they're cooler than AKs ):
I didn't get a lot of bench time in on the Galil's...but from what I saw the rifle build quality of the externals is very good. Solid and tight, really nice feel. It's definitely a good field rifle. Galil's are very similar to an AK...but with a different look and operation. The hopup is of particular note. It's very similar to the VFC hopup setup where the hopup is spring loaded, pushing back to the mechbox. This keeps the seal nice and consistent and makes removing the mechbox a breeze. Lovely to work on. AWESOME note...unlike the King Arms Galil...the left side selector level on the ICS Galil is functional. The selector plate is similar to an AK plate, but has a beefy slot/lug moulded into it. The nub on the left side selector (sits right under your righ thumb...unless you're a left handed freak of nature) fits into this slot and moves the selector plate from safe/full/semi. NICE. I've asked that ICS send in a couple more selector plates so I can try to mod my KA GALIL SAR to work the same way.

Now, compared to the KA Galil...the ICS Galil isn't quite as pretty. It's very nice, but the KA is more "polished". KA part edges are crisper, the fit of things a bit more precise. But the KA's come with a stiff price tag. The ICS bolt does not blow back like the KA...but that's ok. The handguard of the ICS is not split underneath like the KA, but rather one piece. Stick battery or LiPo for Galil's (I use a stick LiPo..).

The mechboxes are typical ICS V3's. Nothing really special to note. Frankly, all the ICS mechboxes I've ever seen look pretty much the same over the years. Easy to work on, quick to open and close. Wiring/solder/etc...seem good. The one thing that I've noticed with a lot of ICS mechboxes is that some bushings seem a split hair oversized for the axels. Just enough to detect movement, but not enough to cause issue. Shimming out the box was very good. ICS nozzels are not stellar...and they've never been (IMHO).

The rifle fires smooth and sounds "nice". Decent motor response and feel.

I'd buy one of these if I didn't already have one. I suspect that we'll see more than a few of these show up on fields this year. I'm not an AK guy...but I really like the Galil's.

ICS AKS74U/AK74M
I'm going to lump these two together since they're almost identical. I'm also not much of an AK guy...so they don't really get me excited .

The external build quality of these are above average. The AKS74U is a solid little brute. Not wobbly like some of the other makes. Getting the mechbox out is especially a pain on these since the hinged dust cover can't be removed (means you won't loose the pin either). So getting at the left hopup screw is a pain. The battery tray is a nice touch. Instead of a flimsy plastic tray (a la TM)...the tray is a solid setup that "clamps" onto the top rail of the V3 mechbox (it still has the mechbox closing strap thing...but it claps to the sides of that). So it ain't going anywere and won't snap when you're fiddling with batteries.

The wiring of these rifles goes up through the receiver block, into the gas tube area (where the extension connectors and fuse are) and then turn around back to the dust cover area. Sounds complicated, but it's nice so you don't have to jam the battery + plug + fuse + wire all under the dust cover.

Selecting fire modes is very positive and not "vague" like some AKs. That's due to the spring/ball under the right side selector gear face on the mechbox. Nice touch...but remember that it's there and don't drop the ball bearing (or little machined brass plug on some AKs).

The 74M is solid. The gas tube comes off like a real AK (i.e. flip lever and pop it off)...it's a tight fit but you can fine adjust the gas block forward and back to suit.

The mechboxes are very similar for both these rifles. Standard ICS stuff.

The AKS74U shoots nice and has a POP sound. It sounds a like a hot gun...but was shooting within limits. Personally, I like that and the sound suits the look of the gun. The 74M sounds much quieter in comparison...even if it's shooting stronger.

It may have just been this run of rifles, but there were some quality control issues with details of the assembly/disassembly to note. A once over of the 74M was all that was needed to jiggle a little more space for the gas block or to tighted a screw....not a big deal and easy to do. But they weren't "perfectly assembled" like the VFC's were. The AKS74U was a tight rifle...but I think that the difficulty with being able to reach the left side hopup screw (the screw that holds the hopup in place with the receiver/metchbox) led to the factory assembly guy forcing things. The big + is that ICS seems very responsive, quick to get a hold of and easy to communicate with. We got the company on-line that night and parts were being boxed and shipped right after the call was finished. I strongly suspect the little bastard on the assembly line will be taken out back, beaten and never heard from again.

The 74M has the scope mount thingy on the side...the AKS74U has two holes ready to receive a mount (I think...caught my eye but I didn't check them out closely). The area at the front of the left side of the receiver where a RS optic mount would slip in is just detail moulded...and not a female dovetail slot like on a KA Galil. Anyways...like I said I'm not a big AK guy and these little details mean nothing to me

All in all...with a quick once over they're great value guns. Solid and shoot like a house on fire. Of the two I'd be tempted by the AKS74U as a little sh*t kicker gun.

L85:
Sorry, didn't get any bench time with these. From what I heard, the power tuning was easy to access, although care much be taken when removing and replacing the butt plate so as not to catch the motor wiring.

Personally, I think they're goofy guns...but guys that like 'em like 'em a lot.


NOW..where the H*LL is my VFC BAR and MK43!!!!! I'm waiting......(I've only been waiting 7 hours so far, so maybe I should give it more time ).

[Danke]

[QUOTE=L473ncy;1161192Also some constructive criticism is that maybe you could do a shooting test next time you're out in the field or something, I'd like to see a grouping at various distances and the consistency of the shots FPS wise.[/QUOTE]

I do take the AK out often but as a backup incase the rest pack it in so it does not see a lot of use. Maybe I'll have a range day soon were I can spend some time with it. It's really just run so well out of the box I haven't spent much time thinking about it.

[m102404]

I missed working through the ICS MP5's...they didn't end up on the bench for long...they were that easy to work on. The CA B&T-like quick breakdown makes short work of wrenching on the smgs.

This is probably the last brain dump on this set for a while...last rifles to hit the bench were the ICS SIG 552 (short) and SIG 551 (mid size).

As far as the technicals and overall comments, the 552 and 551 are identical. UNLIKE some of the other rifles in this brain dump...this line up of SIG 552/551's were incredibly consistent rifle to rifle...and it's good things that are consistent.

Externals:
Overall the fit and finish was very goot and very consistent. Nothing fancy or tricked out. Just lots of good solid parts and detail. Unlike the flat black on most airsoft guns, the metal body is finished in a not-quite shiny grey. Plastic parts (i.e. grip, foreend and stock) are nice black plastic and sturdy. I didn't get any creak/wobble/hollowness with them.

Sights are typical SIG over complex. Lots of marking, flip this/turn that. They're ok and work. Cocking handle is just a handle...doesn't push into lock the bolt or anything like that.

Selector levers are amibi, mag release is a good sized "ak-ish" paddle. Trigger guard flips to either side so you can use gloves/mitts (note: you can also get quick on the mag release if the trigger guard is flipped to the side).

As with the FAL, the selector lever throw on the SIG is long. Short movement to semi...then a long throw to full auto.

Handling is good, the SIG is a very "pointy" and comfy rifle.

Internals:
Yeah! A departure from the AK ICS mechboxes. These seem like the new gen of ICS mechboxes. Nicely finished, decently assembled. The piston head o-ring needs tweaking, but in general they a solid little mechboxes. These are the black mechboxes with ICS Turbo 3000 motors.

The ICS AK motors paled in comparison to the no-lable red motors from the VFC rifles....but the ICS Turbo 3000 closes that gap a fair bit. These motors have some good "make your screws jump across the table" pull.

The ambi selectors work off of indexed gears...very, very similar to the FAL. Easy (easier than the SCAR, IMHO) to setup although there looks like a lot of parts.

Wiring and routing the wiring is an absolute dream on this rifle....right up until you try to fit the battery into the handguard!!! HOLY CRAP...on the 552, get ready to switch to LiPo, you'd have to be a magician to get a decent battery in there (or at least not clumsy like me ). The handguard is easy to get off, but it's just a tight space to work with. The 551 obviously has more wiggle room with the longer handguards.

Break down of the rifle is a wet dream. Main pin, remove handguards, pull off the upper. Then it's like an MP5 to get the mech out of the lower. The rifles come with a step by step diagram layout to remove the mechbox....and some CD that we never fired up.

They're snappy little shooters and sound good.

I really dislike SIG mags...if it weren't for them I'd have bought a SIG long ago.

[m102404]

Over all comments:

- VFC rifles kick ass. Pick one, any one.
- The newest version of ICS mechboxes are a good step up from the previous ones.
- Full metal is nice...so nice to see some after the "sporter-ized"/Cansoft/hybrid eyesores that have plagued the market. Boo Cansoft.
- It's obvious that new models from a manufacture get the "newer stuff" or "newer specs" for parts/finish/assembly. Their existing models seem to stay with whatever specs they were released with. Too bad...but that's the way it is I guess.

-- VFC SR16...smexchy sweet
-- VFC SCAR L TAN...solid build
-- ICS GALIL...cool, and not an AK
-- ICS SIG 551...solid rifle, longer handguard to stash the juice
- VFC M4 SOPMOD...nice build right off the bat...I'd rather buy this than build one from scratch
- ICS AKS74U...bad ass sh*t kicker gun
- ICS MP5...good old solid
- ICS AK74M...I'm not an AK guy...I'll stop there before I piss off the Russians.
- ICS L85...they're handy rifles...but bullpups have never held any appeal for me. Some guys love 'em though, I just can't get used to having the mag under my armpit.

It was really cool to get some bench time with all these different rifles and be able to compare one make to the next. It was also really good to see the consistency that a manufacturer will have between one rifle and the the next of the same model...shows the QC and attention to detail...top marks to VFC for that. It was good to get different generations/builds of mechboxes onto the bench at the same time to compare setups and assemblies. Having the opportunity to look/compare the fine details between the builds of the different rifle types is neat.

[safx]

Originally Posted by m102404

Break down of the rifle is a wet dream.

Buddy... you gotta get out of
your basement more often.

Come back to the light...

[m102404]

LOL...the things we do for fun, eh?

Out there...somewhere...there is the perfect airsoft rifle...

[safx]

Originally Posted by m102404

LOL...the things we do for fun, eh?

Out there...somewhere...there is the perfect airsoft rifle...

Not any more mofo, I've
tamed the sickness.

Yah your right, it's called
a renter!

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by m102404

LOL...the things we do for fun, eh?

Out there...somewhere...there is the perfect airsoft rifle...

then i touched it and it broke

[BATTLE CRY]

Hi,

I'm new to airsoft. I considering getting a VFC SOPMOD or VFC SCAR.
Which one?.. (besides the weight) if I play outdoor (most of the time) and sometimes indoor, in terms of performance and flexibility to upgrade?
Pls advice.