See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[ex]

HOLY FUCK...I started to write this exact same thing yesterday and pulled pole for fear of being lynched. Thanks Brian! Add me to the list of elitist cranky old fucks.

[HGI]

No, but there's still always the 16-18 aged players who get what they can and show up and the hard cores/old farts act to cool, can't get off their high horse and just make the best out of it and have fun day setting a good example.

I remember years ago when I started and there were the barbies of airsoft, and all I had was a springer(it was a tm springer). I'm sure there's a lot of people around here who have the same story.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by HGI

That's what I'm saying, I wrote a huge rant about that and thought it might hurt your feelings so I deleted it.

Get over it, not every new young player (age 16-18) have $1500-$2500 to blow away on a toy and heck only 30% of them end up playing for more than a season cause you cranky old farts turn them down or scare them away.

Less hardcore
More fun

when i started i was fielding a $300 JAC mp5 mind you that was back in 88/89 and all the players that played with me knows i don't baby my shit either.
the point of this is what we have been saying all these years, save up and buy quality, just the same as paintball you need roughly around $1000 worth of gears, guns, ammo and other stuff to play.
Being hardcore to me is playing 6 out of seven days which we did back then and not about gears but now we are consumed with wannabe gangsta and toughguys that just want to look cool and hurt people. games with full auto lighting up someone at CQB range, blind firing, mag ticklers etc. i say airsoft are becoming more like paintball more than anything else.
unfortunately turning away or scaring these noobs are the only way that they will understand that we do not tolerate paintball actions in our sport.

[The Saint]

I don't think this will kill airsoft, provided that we make a firm stand against it here and now.

It'll put airsoft in the hospital, but it should take a lot more than one poorly chosen retailer and his crapsoft products to do us in.

[m102404]

LOL...finally see the light, eh? You got half of it...expansion, but not the revitalization part.

The only thing that hasn't changed much is the price of "good old airsoft guns". They're less marketable to fewer people...but that's life. Tougher to sell, sometimes tougher to get. I suspect that with the normal attrition of airsoft players...the demand for those more expensive ones will die off even further. I don't see the "graduation" to real guns happening for much longer.

Take yourself and myself...like what we've got? Yup. Need any others? Not really. Want one or two more? Sure..GBBR's are neat. But I doubt either of us are going to be snapping up more Real Swords, G&G AK's or solid M-series.

Even with the latest trend of GBBR stuff coming on hard...the clones (some horrendously questionable) are out faster than the "good" ones can get to market! So where as the next trend would have pushed people along into a move to a better/different platform...that move, if it happens, will be a latteral one. It'll still be sub-$400 AGM GBBRs and $800+ better GBBRs.

So where does that leave things? There's potential for a lot of game play for event organizers...but the baggage that comes along with that might not make it worth while.

Basically a lot of guys/games have gone out of the mainstream. The doors that used to be open to newcomers are closing more and more. New guys who bitch at an extra $5-10 per game, no free food, no chauffered ride, lack of handholding and general coddling...set a tone for how things are going to go for the gen public/newcomers.

There's hope though...if the mindset/attitude is there, they'll get into the "good old" stuff (guns, gear, games, events, players). If not...who knows?

Also...you're getting old and stuck in your ways...

[ex]

Originally Posted by m102404

...

So where does that leave things? There's potential for a lot of game play for event organizers...but the baggage that comes along with that might not make it worth while.

Basically a lot of guys/games have gone out of the mainstream. The doors that used to be open to newcomers are closing more and more. New guys who bitch at an extra $5-10 per game, no free food, no chauffered ride, lack of handholding and general coddling...set a tone for how things are going to go for the gen public/newcomers.

Quoted for truth

[The Saint]

This is just a rough patch, guys. Bad economy, bad policy, bad products. We just have to stick things through. We're better than this.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by HGI

That's what I'm saying, I wrote a huge rant about that and thought it might hurt your feelings so I deleted it.

Get over it, not every new young player (age 16-18) have $1500-$2500 to blow away on a toy and heck only 30% of them end up playing for more than a season cause you cranky old farts turn them down or scare them away.

Less hardcore
More fun

I have no issue with "fun" I pretty much always have fun at games..

I do have an issue with people showing up ill equipped and ill prepared to participate in an activity that has a defined expectation of equipment and mind set.

Showing up at what is by definition a military simulation activity in runners and jeans... with a crapsoft gun and one highcap is kinda like asking a group of BASE jumpers if you can come along and use an extra large umbrella.

Now I get that Canadain laws force the market in certain directions... fact is there are decent quality clear receiver guns that with a shock coat of spray paint are indistinguishable from regular plastic receiver guns.

it is the invading "crapsoft" that I take issue with

[Brakoo]

Originally Posted by ex

HOLY FUCK...I started to write this exact same thing yesterday and pulled pole for fear of being lynched. Thanks Brian! Add me to the list of elitist cranky old fucks.

I wanted to jump on the elitist cranky old fucks bandwagon but being 26 I don't think I'm old enough to be considered cranky old, what am I ?

The good thing is that back then since getting into the sport required more money people actually took the time to research and read before investing. Back when I started my options as far as AEG went were either TM or CA and everyone told me that CA was shit.

I took the time to read every useful section of this forum and another bunch of reviews online before buying my first gun and when I showed up to my first game I knew all the basic safety rules without anyone telling me what they were and for my first 4-5 games I just stood there quietly and listened to what the old guys had to say.

What's happening now is that people can simply spit out a mere 100$ and then show up to a game thinking they know it all. It's true that not everyone will be like that but it's those jerks that will stand out from the pack of new players. People don't care anymore about knowing how the sport and the community works, they just want to shoot people with gun that looks real.

I do hope that this whole thing will sort itself out otherwise private games will be the way of the future....anyway for me.

[Dirtbag]

I am as old and cranky as the next guy, and sure guys roaring spraying the world down with no clue are a pain. But for the sport to be accessible it needs to have a decent starting point for price. And 1000.00 to 1500.00 is not it, 300 to 400 is a better starting point.

You want the guys with the inexpensive guns to play better, structure your game days that way. For example we start with a quick warm up game, make sure the everyone is ready to go and there are no gun problems. Then move to team based scenario games for the rest of the day.

We stress teamwork, and games are structured that way. Our field is setup so anyone can be effective as long as their AEG meets TM stock FPS of about 280 or so.

We also mentor new players, team them up with older players and show the ropes etc.

This year we have a good core group of 8 or 9 old hands, after the usual yearly attrition of new girl friends, jobs etc. And as many as 15 new guys with various clear smoked or other guns, every other week. The ones who want to run and gun a mess around go elsewhere the rest stay and our group slowly gets bigger and better.

If you want a closed elitist sport then airsoft is doomed, you need to take the good with the bad and try to focus on the good. Stuffing your head in the sand has never made anything better.

I agree with Brian M re unprepared players they drive me nuts and not just at sims, but even regular game days. They come with discharged batteries, non functional guns and just want to be the wunderkid of the day. We tell them have to wait to the next game before they can player and no the field fees are not refundable. An hour to an hour and 1/2 of cooling their jets usually has them sorted by the next game. As for sims we just send them home, if they do not have the minimum kit then off they go.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

it is the invading "crapsoft" that I take issue with

There is no invasion.

Standing ASC policy held the door open for this current fiasco. That policy needs to be corrected.

[Brakoo]

Originally Posted by m102404

Basically a lot of guys/games have gone out of the mainstream. The doors that used to be open to newcomers are closing more and more. New guys who bitch at an extra $5-10 per game, no free food, no chauffered ride, lack of handholding and general coddling...set a tone for how things are going to go for the gen public/newcomers.

Holy shit man that is so true, I went to a game a month and a half ago and in the AAR thread people bitched that the organizer didn't setup trash bins and didn't bring water for everyone. When I dared replying that stuff like that is for everyone to take care of and not the organizer to grab them by the hand I nearly got lynched for being so "mean".

[Bissa]

like some people have stated the clear receiver guns are a good way of people getting into the sport without finding out that they dont like it and only being a couple hundred out instead of upwards of a thousand dollars if they got a proper gun and some gear in order to not look out of place when you get to the feild.
And you guys giving up on airsoft because of these people who have a starter gun is defeating the pourpose of this. since you guys leave, so the games are smaller and the new players are less likely to go out to the games; so they leave making the comunity die off much faster than if you guys put up with them and gave suggestions to the new guys on what they can do to be better on the feild.
like danke said, we have a mix of different groups of people at our feild. and if the gun is clear or not it still shoot 6mm BBs so when you are the other side of the path of those BBs it still counts as a hit weather that person spent $400 or $4000 to get their gear. all of the more experianced guys are giving positive support to the new guys so they are not left out and sitting in the respawn area for 80% of the games.

[testtube]

Originally Posted by Bissa

like some people have stated the clear receiver guns are a good way of people getting into the sport without finding out that they dont like it and only being a couple hundred out instead of upwards of a thousand dollars if they got a proper gun and some gear in order to not look out of place when you get to the feild.

I agree with this alot of pepople can't afford the high end guns.so there alternative is the cheaper ones. as an orginizer I make sure my games keep going and if it happends that there gun dies then there fault.

I have had elitist players bitch about pricing not on new guy's who come out to events.

I've been playing for 8 years now. and have seen the comunity grow and shrink in many different way's

the mentality of I run a full metal gun and you run a G&G cansoft does it make you better player then me. no trust me.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Bissa

like some people have stated the clear receiver guns are a good way of people getting into the sport without finding out that they dont like it and only being a couple hundred out instead of upwards of a thousand dollars if they got a proper gun and some gear in order to not look out of place when you get to the feild.

unfortunately it also brings in 15yr old wannabe gangsta and toughguys, I have no issue with new players is just the odd ones who thinks they know it all from being a master at playing COD games. players that knows me know that i often lend out my AEG (no crapsoft) to players out in the field no question asked as long as i feel that they can conduct themselves properly.