systema mp5

I wonder about the mags capacity and price.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by pawscal

I wonder about the mags capacity and price.

no reason tho think they would be different than the M4 PTW.. ?

there is a lot of speculaton about this item... I suspect there will be a lot more info after Shot Show..

rest assured Carl will be all over this puppy when he is down there.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

There is so much different in the MP5 from an AR platform. Think of hoe the motor mounts in the AR, to the lower directly, not the gearbox or the grip. In the MP5, it will have to mount to the gearbox or the grip. This will be a fundemental change in gearbox design and durability, just like between a Ver 2 and 3 in a Marui.

Kumi Yoshida has released info that the MP5 is the best PTW yet, according to her, but that remains to be seen. They would be smart to use existing components for all the internals, but I don't see that being possible. The MP5 cosmetically and structurally are too different, both in the real and airsoft, to have all of their components interchangable. Consider even the electronics, to have both full and burst, you can't do it with the design of a PTW currently without the addition of a switch at the very least. So, have they added another selector switch to make 3 instead of 2 used in the AR platform? This would require either different switches or a different gerabox to accomodate a 3rd switch.

You see how quickly this changes the mechanics of the gun?

And to remove the stock on a real MP5, you need a flat blade screwdriver or similar tool. Do this in the bush, in low-light, without a retained pin, good luck. You don't need any tools with the AR series and their pin is retained. Takedown will need to be done in a safe zone or similar area to be effective.

Like I said, I'll reserve final judgement until it shows up, but we won't see them in Canada until late spring early summer at the earliest, and more info will flow out about them before then.

Wow, you're not only a PTW extremist. You're an Armalite PTW extremist.

It's quite possible for SystemA to register the motor directly to the gearbox. All they've got to do is use a similar quarter twist bayonet style engagement as they did with the Armalite before the plastic lower grip is slide over the motor. This would be an improvement over the Armalite build as you would only have to achieve accurate engagement between two major assemblies (motor-gearbox) whereas the Armalite requires accurage engagement between three bodies (gearbox-rec'r-motor).

Putting in a third switch to detect the 4th f/a position is pretty easy with a similar rack and pinion slider similarly to the Armalite series. The could put a gap in the middle of the engagement surface of the slider so the middle switch is closed in the 3rd position (3rnd) but not in the 2nd (semi) or 4th (full auto) positions. If they double the pinion diameter on the selector switch (double the diameter from the armalite series) they can achieve a long enough throw distance on the rack slider to actuate four distinct switch combos. The wiring to the control board would only be slightly more complicated by adding one temporary connection to the middle switch to the already available pinouts that we use to hack 3rnd burst switches.

One touch takedown isn't really all that necessary a feature in airsoft or even training. The real deal requires some tools to take down. It's more realistic to require tools to dissamble it's replica. Besides, it would be better to train armorors with the real deal instead of it's electrical simulator.

SystemA has been pretty good at making mechanically strong AEGs. I can only hope they learned some lessons with their Armalites and ditched their ridiculous hop up and magazine assembly. The Armalite HU sucks and the way the retention fingers work with the HU to release bbs is overcomplicated. TM developed a very elegant mag-HU assembly. It's tolerant to the economical manufacturing tolerances TM manufactures with and it outperforms SystemA's work in this area. I'd say that it's the only area where SystemA lags behind TM in outright performance.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

no reason tho think they would be different than the M4 PTW.. ?

there is a lot of speculaton about this item... I suspect there will be a lot more info after Shot Show..

rest assured Carl will be all over this puppy when he is down there.

Oh man. I have to get Hojo to vouch for me so I can get a press pass for ShotShow. Maybe as a reporter to interview Kumi and review the new MP5. I'm already going as an industry particapant, but with a press pass, I'd be allowed to take photos of SystemA's stuff.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Oh man. I have to get Hojo to vouch for me so I can get a press pass for ShotShow. Maybe as a reporter to interview Kumi and review the new MP5. I'm already going as an industry particapant, but with a press pass, I'd be allowed to take photos of SystemA's stuff.

You just want to touch it before us

[Lakonian]

Mmmmm. I'm looking forward to this... Muahahaha.

Hopefully it wont out do the M4s too much.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Ronan

You just want to touch it before us

I'm sure it's a nice feeling piece of work, but at ShotShow there's practically everything in small arms from a wicked small Detonics 0.45 to HKs awesome GMG. I loved fiddling with the GMG. Everyone ogles the HK 417, but I was busy stripping the GMG. Then there are the pay as you go Vegas firing ranges.

[manchovie]

Originally Posted by kos

Mmmmm. I'm looking forward to this... Muahahaha.

Hopefully it wont out do the M4s too much.

why not? that'd be fantastic. i hope for systema's sake they do.

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by manchovie

why not? that'd be fantastic. i hope for systema's sake they do.

I wasn't being serious..

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I'm sure it's a nice feeling piece of work, but at ShotShow there's practically everything in small arms from a wicked small Detonics 0.45 to HKs awesome GMG. I loved fiddling with the GMG. Everyone ogles the HK 417, but I was busy stripping the GMG. Then there are the pay as you go Vegas firing ranges.

*Moans* you know the right words to my heart LOL!

On a side note i'm contacting Mr. SystemA tomorrow to see if those MP5's are landing in Canada through ZShot or anyone... i'm prepared to be disappointed but heh...

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Wow, you're not only a PTW extremist. You're an Armalite PTW extremist.

It's quite possible for SystemA to register the motor directly to the gearbox. All they've got to do is use a similar quarter twist bayonet style engagement as they did with the Armalite before the plastic lower grip is slide over the motor. This would be an improvement over the Armalite build as you would only have to achieve accurate engagement between two major assemblies (motor-gearbox) whereas the Armalite requires accurage engagement between three bodies (gearbox-rec'r-motor).

Putting in a third switch to detect the 4th f/a position is pretty easy with a similar rack and pinion slider similarly to the Armalite series. The could put a gap in the middle of the engagement surface of the slider so the middle switch is closed in the 3rd position (3rnd) but not in the 2nd (semi) or 4th (full auto) positions. If they double the pinion diameter on the selector switch (double the diameter from the armalite series) they can achieve a long enough throw distance on the rack slider to actuate four distinct switch combos. The wiring to the control board would only be slightly more complicated by adding one temporary connection to the middle switch to the already available pinouts that we use to hack 3rnd burst switches.

One touch takedown isn't really all that necessary a feature in airsoft or even training. The real deal requires some tools to take down. It's more realistic to require tools to dissamble it's replica. Besides, it would be better to train armorors with the real deal instead of it's electrical simulator.

SystemA has been pretty good at making mechanically strong AEGs. I can only hope they learned some lessons with their Armalites and ditched their ridiculous hop up and magazine assembly. The Armalite HU sucks and the way the retention fingers work with the HU to release bbs is overcomplicated. TM developed a very elegant mag-HU assembly. It's tolerant to the economical manufacturing tolerances TM manufactures with and it outperforms SystemA's work in this area. I'd say that it's the only area where SystemA lags behind TM in outright performance.

My point is, it will not be able to be 100% compatable on internals. And with Systemas recent QC hiccups on "new technologies" (490 motors for example), I see no reason to be even the slightest bit enthusiastic until they release info and pictures of the interior. And who says their new way of motor mounting will be better? You're assuming they'll have a new gearbox shell, which they may, but they may manufacture an adapter to do the job, or it could be a Magnum motor instead of a PTW motor. Hell, it could even be a Ver 2 gearbox for all we know. The new EL-001 board are different in 2008, the "hack" you do now for 3-burst is no longer possible in the same manner, and control is different.

This gun has been 4 years "in development" or "coming soon". This is not a new and to be excited about thing here. I knew of it's existance and development long before most of ASC did, so I've had a long time for the excitement to wear off.

THis is the best available info so far:

SYSTEMA Major Dealers,

PTW MP5: I am surprised at so many inquiries. Although it is a new product, I never got so many inquires until now. I never imagined that we got reservations when not only specification but also price is not yet decided.We will inform about reservation start as early in 2008 as possible.

Very many inquiries do not decrease at all but just increase, so I report current state:

(1) Production is very favorable. The trial production is completed about 80 percent now.

(2) It already worked. It realized the shooting feeling which we have never felt. It is the best PTW that reached to the extreme performance.

(3) It is very heavy. It is about 4kg! It is so heavy and you need power to holding.

The difference of the light movement by the ultimate performance of outside rigidity and inside mechanism is remarkable.
Everyone cannot help being surprised, laughing and shooting.

(4)Although we are trying hard not to become more expensive than this, the scheduled price is $ 980, Y98000. It may become a bit more expensive.

We are trying as hard as possible so that we can provide at this fixed price. (Although it is the best performance and quality, we set the fixed price as low as possible so that you all could shoot this wonderful new product this time. If you try this, you can certainly be satisfied. It is the product which makes you feel relatively cheap.)

(5) We will announce it at SHOTSHOW early in February. (Las Vegas, US).
We plan to start selling on March 1st.

(6) We plan to start selling MP5 challenge kit on the same day. (Scheduled price $880, Y88000)

(7) I am very sorry but the number of first time lots is only 300. I am sorry!
Although I expect they will be sold out by reservation, as for the first lot, we will allocate them not in order of reservation but with the number of your order.

(7) We will keep trying hard wholeheartedly so that we can provide more next month. Thank you for your kind understanding

(8) When the number which can be shipped is less than the number of orders, we will ship immediately after we produce it. .

(9) Although I have already got many reservation orders because some definitely wanted to reserve, since the first time lot will be allocation, I have accepted it. Thank you very much for a lot of inquiries and orders.

Thank you very much. Thank you for your consideration. The attached pictures are of the trial production which I brought to my home.

Kumi Yoshida

I highly doubt it has a v2 gearbox , it will either be completly new gearbox or use the same as the m4, I would guess same as the armalite.

[mcguyver]

It can't use the same gearbox as the AR, unless the use an adapter for mounting the motor, but that's just dumb.

Sheesh, read my posts above.

[attack-beaver]

if they use a V2 mech box i'll be more the disappointed after all the wait they drop a V2 MB in to it.

[mcguyver]

Well, let's think about it for a second. Current AR PTW pricing sits at about $1500 U.S. retail, and the prices have been expected to increase on them very shortly. Now, they announce the MP5 with retail at $980 U.S. for their newest platform. It would be 60% of pricing expected for the AR.

Did they just drop the price out of the kindness of their heart, or is it more realistic to think that it's not the same system at all? I mean, they're Japanese in the business of making money. Did their parts cost suddenly tank, and if so, why are the ARs not selling for $1000 retail, but instead expected to increase?

But this is all speculation until they hit the consumer, are used, evaluated, torn down, etc..