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Duster in a green gas GBB?

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Old November 30th, 2007, 01:44   #16
Crunchmeister
 
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Originally Posted by Drake View Post
Another alternative is to mix a small amount of propane in with your duster, which I use to do on my Marui M92FS before i got a metal body kit for it. Assuming you usually fill it about 6 seconds, basically 5/6 duster + 1/6 green gas. The end result is a bit odd; you get an increase in power but very crappy "gas mileage."
Well, it's good to hear this. I guess you missed at the end of my last post that I was already doing this. I was experimenting with the right proportions and I found that 5 seconds of duster + 2 seconds of propane worked well. The slide action isn't anywhere near as violent, but the gun still seems pretty powerful and about on par with the all metal KJW M9 that's propane powered.

And I noticed the "mileage" issue as well. The maximum I can shoot reliably on one charge is 15 rounds. Subsequent shots get weaker and I'm out of gas by the 18th or 19th shot. I was wondering if this was normal. I'm glad to hear it is.
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Old November 30th, 2007, 02:56   #17
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haha damn, yeah, I totally missed it. I just read the bit about propane in the WA and fast forwarded through the rest, cuz I was thinking "oh noes! don't do thaaaaat!"

Sorry, my bad missing it. Glad you found the alternative though. I ran my TM that way for years, never had any trouble. Also, what I found from testing is that the more propane you mix in, the faster it empties out. So maybe try just a bit less propane and see if that improves how many shots you can get out reliably.
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Old November 30th, 2007, 03:27   #18
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MG chemicals "Super duster 123A" is some trifluo.... but retails at around twice the price of normal duster.

I got some once to test my guns.. it cycled a WE hicapa Dragon perfectly in an indoor condition (arouns 20-23deg.)
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Old November 30th, 2007, 04:00   #19
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Originally Posted by Kos-Mos View Post
MG chemicals "Super duster 123A" is some trifluo.... but retails at around twice the price of normal duster.

I got some once to test my guns.. it cycled a WE hicapa Dragon perfectly in an indoor condition (arouns 20-23deg.)
Wow, considering WE slides are really heavy.
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Old December 1st, 2007, 17:14   #20
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Originally Posted by Kos-Mos View Post
MG chemicals "Super duster 123A" is some trifluo.... but retails at around twice the price of normal duster.

I got some once to test my guns.. it cycled a WE hicapa Dragon perfectly in an indoor condition (arouns 20-23deg.)
And where is this MG chemicals "Super duster 123A" available from?
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Old December 1st, 2007, 17:20   #21
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HFC134A = Duster
Propane = Green Gas
Period.
right, but what is Red Gas? i haven't heard much about that other than it makes GBB shoot really hot.
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:17   #22
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hey everybody

I'm actually looking for duster but all I found in shop are not HFC134, this is trifluo.

where do you find HFC134 duster?
you confirm that's not recommended to use trifluo in gbb (only problem of power or other problem?)

in the same time, where do you buy silicon oil?
I only find silicon lubricant (canadian tyre, Rona) I think this is not the same thing because I tested it on a paint metal and it remoove the paint....., I don't want it for my gbb
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:27   #23
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right, but what is Red Gas? i haven't heard much about that other than it makes GBB shoot really hot.
The old nomenclatures for gas were, by ascending order of power:

Blue Gas = HFC134a, AKA Duster
Green Gas = Propane, AKA "TOP gas" (TOP was a brand of green gas from Toy Jack)
Red Gas = generally accepted as being HCFC-22, AKA Freon
Black Gas = usually CO2


Some people have claimed different power levels from different brands of green gas. I never saw much difference, except in the smell (HFC's smelled like dead fish...) The only brand that was known to be substantially stronger was "Winter Grade American Eagle" which was sold in the UK. No clue what was actually it in.
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:27   #24
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hey everybody

I'm actually looking for duster but all I found in shop are not HFC134, this is trifluo.

where do you find HFC134 duster?
you confirm that's not recommended to use trifluo in gbb (only problem of power or other problem?)

in the same time, where do you buy silicon oil?
I only find silicon lubricant (canadian tyre, Rona) I think this is not the same thing because I tested it on a paint metal and it remoove the paint....., I don't want it for my gbb
Check the FAQ
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:29   #25
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there are 2 options that i have found

#1 - buy from The Source their brand of duster
http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Pr...roduct=6404350

#2 - buy MG Chemicals Super Duster 134a
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/402a.html

i would go with MG duster since it is cheaper. check out their website for Canadian distributors in your province.

tetrafluoroethane (134a) = safe to use in your GBB (make sure to still use silicone oil)
difluoroethane (152a) = bad for your GBB

Last edited by szetor; December 1st, 2007 at 19:32..
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:32   #26
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in the same time, where do you buy silicon oil?
I only find silicon lubricant (canadian tyre, Rona) I think this is not the same thing because I tested it on a paint metal and it remoove the paint....., I don't want it for my gbb
http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:43   #27
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tetrafluoroethane (134a) = safe to use in your GBB (make sure to still use silicone oil)
difluoroethane (152a) = bad for your GBB

Wouldn't say it's bad for your GBB, it just lacks power compared to 134a, even in made-for-duster guns (like WA) so performance generally sucks.
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Old December 1st, 2007, 19:55   #28
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Wouldn't say it's bad for your GBB, it just lacks power compared to 134a, even in made-for-duster guns (like WA) so performance generally sucks.
are you sure?
I read this from the boards

"It's been discussed over an over again. di- duster gas is harder on the seals, and also from what I've seen doesn't provide as much pressure. Stick with the tetra-, it's not that hard to find at all."

"I tought that it was a general consensus in the duster-gas-user's community that Difluorethane was significantly weaker than Tetrafluorethane, and that it also caused the rubber seals to give after a while and/or affect the hop-up sleeve in a negative way (2 problems I would rather not try to confirm... to save a little cash.)"

for these reasons i wouldn't use difluoroethane

heres the thread comparing di to tetra..
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...t=10372&page=3

Last edited by szetor; December 1st, 2007 at 20:00..
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Old December 1st, 2007, 21:24   #29
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thanks for all

I didn't think to "la source"
there is one at the corner of my street.......

how could i have been so stupid......
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Old December 1st, 2007, 23:01   #30
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it just lacks power compared to 134a, even in made-for-duster guns (like WA) so performance generally sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by szetor View Post
"It's been discussed over an over again. di- duster gas is harder on the seals, and also from what I've seen doesn't provide as much pressure. Stick with the tetra-, it's not that hard to find at all."

"I tought that it was a general consensus in the duster-gas-user's community that Difluorethane was significantly weaker than Tetrafluorethane, and that it also caused the rubber seals to give after a while and/or affect the hop-up sleeve in a negative way (2 problems I would rather not try to confirm... to save a little cash.)"
That's what I said, no?

As for being harder on the seals, could be, but I don't know of any actual cases where this has been actually demonstrated. The origin of the concern over difluoroethane revolves around speculation about formaldehyde, as briefly explained in one of the "original" articles about gas guns by DumboRat (an AirsoftZone regular, back in the day, later on Arnie's):

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=/articles/newbie_guide/faq/gas_primer_faq.htm
An oxidative by-product of difluoroethane, as I found out from another player and confirmed with a bit of digging, is formaldehyde. While formaldehyde is a Class I suspect carcinogen, it is probably formed in such small quantities that the use of it in our GBB's really would not constitute a serious concern. However, I would still recommend against specifically going to "sniff" the gas. Even so, formaldehyde gas, *I believe* (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, here) spontaneously decomposes to formic acid -- which may be somewhat harmful, in the long run, to the neoprene/rubber o-rings and seals. Again, though, it is probably formed in such small amounts as to make this a non-issue. It's more likely that your various seals will simply expire due to repeated use.

Also, propane is corrosive to high-density polyethylene (HDPE), polystyrene, and polyurethane, and slightly corrosive to acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS). (source http://www.intox.org/databank/docume...pane/cie59.htm), but we still consider it safe enough to use in our guns.
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