What is the best M4? [Guide for Beginners] (Sticky Please?)

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by Rommen

Fix Or Repair Daily.

Srry, had to get in on the Ford bashing

I've said this before but the Fiesta ST is more like a CTR than the CTR. Other than that, the only Ford I'd get is the Ranger/B-Series, it's just too bad they discontinued it (I want to buy one, drop a VW Diesel in it, and mate it up to a transmission that works). Medium truck wise I really like the Tacos and for full sized I have to go with the Silverado/Sierra.

[MattG666]

Where does an Amoeba fit in to the scene? A polymer Amoeba 008 costs almost as much a full metal King Arms M4. Sure the Amoeba's polymer feels quite sturdy, but what is the discrepancy in materials/price? Are the internals that much better?

I ask because I am a noob and online airsoft reviews seem to be few and most lack good info.

[ThunderCactus]

Problem with GBBRs is as a FIRST (and therefore ONLY) noob gun, you have to meet the following criteria:

-moderate entry cost (not a $700 G&P)
-reliable (there are a few that are pretty darn reliable)
-probably don't want to spend more than $15 per mag right off the bat ($400 GBBR, $300 for 5 more mags)
-reliability would also fall unto the mags for a GBBR, which as we all know are a serious pain. (Unless there's a GBBR out there that has mags on par with pistols for reliability, like the vector)
-Varying temperature performance (it's your only gun, assume you'll be using it -5 to +30)
-Probably don't want it joule creeping like crazy. (I know you just spend $800 on that GBBR package, but you can't use it until you spend another $60 on an NPAS)

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

"Best m4"
I think its a good buyers guide. Good idea, anyway.
Just be sure to update the thread once every 5 years, i think theres another thread around here that implies ca and tm still make good guns LOL

More like everry 6-12 months. AEGs have come a very long way over the last 8 years.

G&G went from a pile of useless garbage ~2010 to a legitimately 'quality' starter gun.

KWA started being seen in Canada around 2012, it was not as good as the KWA USA brand, now it sits as a "quality" entry level gun ~2013

Celsius has been around since 2009 and is famous for being the first PTW clone. It's most current generation (7?) not anywhere near as good as a Systema 2008.

SOCOM Gear stuff is rebrand but it's quality varies from each model gun and batch as was previously mentioned. "BEST" electric M4 is a bad idea for a thread, each year their are dozens of M4 models released by each manufacturer and revisions to each of the existing models. Go to a SHOT show or a toy con and you can hear the speech each year how things are "different" or improved.

As for TM Its a great stock gun, terrible upgrader, even in Japan you don't see many TM's sold in stores. The market is dominated by ACM stuff.

[Ricochet]

These threads always annoy me. When a new player asks for advice, or really when anyone asks for BEST, I automatically think performance, functionality, overall reliability and potential. For example, I don't recommend GBBRs not just because of the cost or the FPS swings, etc, but because they don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Realism in airsoft is cool, but not at the cost of effectiveness. GBBRs to me are like Gucci-flage. They don't make sense in an endurance game because you'd have to carry a butt-load of gas around to still fall retardedly short of what a single lipo can do, they only like medium temperatures and can suddenly go way over FPS restrictions without warning, not to mention all of their maintenance quirks. I can't trade all around everything for a little kick and bang. Polar-Stars with tanks and hoses, etc, etc, etc. budget is what it is, we can recommend something, but the player needs to have enough money for the gun, batteries, a charger, magazines, ammo, possibly upgrades, etc. there's no escaping that. So when someone asks what's the best, first and foremost I think performance. Performance to me is how far it shoots, how consistently, how accurately, etc, period, done, full stop, over. So I personally only recommend the best bang for your buck, in AEGs, that's usually the highest quality one, such as VFC with appropriate upgrades. If your gun is competitive, who cares about gimmicks? Second is quality and reliability. You want your gun to be there for you and not end up being a waste of time or a money pit. For these reasons I will never recommend a sub par brand, even a mediocre one, or one with a hit and miss history, and if it's a clone, forget about it. If a player can't afford a decent G&G, plus all it will need to run properly and competitively, I'd recommend they save up their money and come back to airsoft when they're ready. Guns that have limited amount of parts, magazines, accessories available, etc are also big no no's for me, as well as not being able to be compatible with real steel or high end airsoft parts and accessories. Third is functionality. I have no idea if you're playing with a few kids on private property, going to regular weekend games with a full spectrum of different players, wanting to get into endurance games, or even trying to delve into competitive, organized, squad based modern military style of airsoft. I'm always going to assume the latter, because why recommend guns, gear and equipment that can't carry you through a game from hell, whilst making you as dangerous out there as possible? There's a million other reasons, but this perspective is probably the benchmark. So when someone asks what's the BEST? Well, it's the one that shoots the furthest, straightest, most consistently, reliably, most adaptive, functionally and upgradable within your budget. It's probably electric, in fact I'll damn well guarantee it and no there's no way to make cheap crap or shitty clones all around as good as the opposite.

[SuperHog]

The best M4 is the one you use the most and maintain so it keeps on ticking. There are guys that run only GBBR in warm weather then switch to AEG when temps get cold.

[M0rphine117]

My G&G CM16 has outlasted both my E&C301 and Echo1 as far as stock issues.

E&C lasted 1 games and burnt out.
Echo1 lasted two games and burnt out.
CM16, no jams, misfeeds, battery issues. Nothing. Solid, out of the box all stock, indoor and outdoor.

That being said, I also have an Ares G36c that I love more.(Even with all its magazine issues) But as far as M4's go, its easier on the field as more people run them so magazine compatibility issues are slim to none.

Next M4 will be either ICS or VFC.

Please note, This is my first year playing and only basing my opinions off of what I've played with.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

The best M4 is the one you use the most and maintain so it keeps on ticking. There are guys that run only GBBR in warm weather then switch to AEG when temps get cold.

See, I see what you're saying, but this is what I'm talking about. The best anything is one you don't have to switch out just because of the temperature. If it can't take hot or cold, to me it's discounted as possibly being the best. Also other limitations to other guns throw them out of the ring as well.

[Slodin]

nooo, GBBR is pretty unreliable...I saw one guy using it at a temp about 5-8degrees outside in the rain, it just didn't want to work, saw the gun keep on puffing a lot of gas with each trigger pull...I had to stick to him to provide protection while he was trying to figure out what is going on..they are super expensive too...funny my pistol was working just fine using the same kind of propane gas..that felt me an negative impression with GBBRs ever since

maybe external HPA tanks would help? cause they are okay with cold temp.

I'm just here to comment on that GBBR...I don't play with any M4 AEG other than 1 round with my friends G&G CM16..it misfeed a handful of times, fire selector got stuck on semi and won't fire.

[MaybeStopCalling]

Originally Posted by Slodin

nooo, GBBR is pretty unreliable...I saw one guy using it at a temp about 5-8degrees outside in the rain, it just didn't want to work, saw the gun keep on puffing a lot of gas with each trigger pull...I had to stick to him to provide protection while he was trying to figure out what is going on..they are super expensive too...funny my pistol was working just fine using the same kind of propane gas..that felt me an negative impression with GBBRs ever since

maybe external HPA tanks would help? cause they are okay with cold temp.

I'm just here to comment on that GBBR...I don't play with any M4 AEG other than 1 round with my friends G&G CM16..it misfeed a handful of times, fire selector got stuck on semi and won't fire.

Wrong gas - at that temperature you want to use MAPP gas, and maybe improve the seal between the nozzle and carrier. That's all it is.

[ThunderCactus]

my pistol works awesome on MAPP in 5-10 degrees

[Ricochet]

Yeah, mine as well. GBBPs aren't exactly the same as GBBRs, but each GBBR doesn't run identical either. Some are far superior to others. I had a few TM pistols that didn't like hot weather, one that didn't like cold weather, but mostly they haven't been an issue. My current ones are yet to show a problem. I haven't used them in minus temperatures but I have in over 35•.

[Amoki]

No discussion on ICS M4? Just need to shave the 2nd tooth down, put a new motor, and it's a great piece IMO, especially with the rotary hop up design.

The writeup on G&P M4 is far too charitable. Their mag-well is warped. That has an effect on the mags that you use and *some* air seal issue. E.g., on my G&P M4, even after the velcro mod, leaning a MAG 130 rnd mid-cap forward gives you an extra 10 FPS. You lost about 60-80 FPS on a Beta Project PMAG mid-cap.

[Datawraith]

@MattG666: Amoeba's are generally regarded as a step up from a basic Ares. From what I've heard, they aren't bad at all. Will have to add that in an update.

@ThunderCactus: I agree; that's why I recommended AEG's instead of GBBR's as a beginner gun.

@Azazoth: I will hopefully update this a few times a year if/when I get new information. On that note though, opinions on Dytac/Deepfire/more recent guns you think are suitable to put on a beginner M4 list?

@Ricochet: Holy that's a long paragraph, although I think it does mostly confirm what I've written as the main thread (please tell me if I'm wrong on that).

@Superhog: Mmm, for those that can afford multiple guns perhaps. But this is mainly a thread for a BEGINNER gun, i.e. first gun.

@Morphine117: I will have to update and add G&G sometime to the list as a budget beginner M4, whenever I'm not too busy.

@Amoki: I don't have any experience with ICS, so I don't feel qualified to give an opinion on them. Split gearbox design is nice and convenient, but I don't know what the quality of it is nor how well it shoots. Also, you mentioned it is a great piece AFTER shaving the 2nd tooth and replacing the motor, which isn't ideal for a beginner (unless they pay a tech/gundoc to do it immediately after purchase, which again, is not ideal). I know that G&P's aren't compatible with some magazine brands, but I've never heard of FPS gain or loss like that... Their receiver externals are beautiful though, which is why a lot of builds use their bodies (other than that non-closing cover).

[Amoki]

The stock ICS motor is a high-torque but low ROF. In essence, just about the only thing you *really* need to do to an ICS is the shaving of the 2nd tooth. It's not something I consider hard: after all ICS ships their guns with an instruction CD (!). Plus with a split gearbox you don't have the "parts exploding everywhere" issue with most mechboxes.

tbqh though, is there really any gun, other than a TM, that doesn't require some sort of preliminary examination by a gun-doc before use?