Laser Danger (Won't risk my own eyes, willing to risk yours) (̶T̶L̶:̶D̶R̶=̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶n̶e̶)̶

[redneck12]

I bought a laser pointer from Dollarama to play with my girl friends cat, lol if I hold it in the same place for a minute or 2 it will burn the paint on the wall. I also have a china brand PEQ 15 that I would never actually use at a game not worth the risk, the only time it has a battery in it is when I'm shooting my rifles in the basement.

[Heerven]

2 min is pretty long... If I put my hand in a flame for 3 sec it's fine for 2 min I have a BBQ steack medium rare

I have a question? How long it takes to have a blind spot into an eye. I'm working on project with laser pointer to aim a target (non human). but I don't want to risk a player's eye.

if you point a laser by hand on a spot on a wall for exemple. To keep it steady for even one second at 5 m it practically impossible. that mean the beam will probably pass trough your face an hit your eye for a fraction of second. Does that mean it will leave like a line into your eye?
I just want to evaluate the risk if by mistake, pointing an object (Building, vehicule empty), the laser cross accidentally a face for a fraction of seconde for the target acquisition...

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Black Jack

.

You do know that FDA approves imported items also? Its stated even right at the begining of the OP here, did you read it? Also you know that its not the goal to shine lasers in anyones eyes during a game any more than it is to shoot people in the face with bbs. But ill take you up on your offer for science to prove if you're right. Ill let you shine an unregulated chinese laser pointer in my eyes for 3 seconds, if you let me shoot you in the face with a hot gun for 3 seconds, and we will see who has the worse day.

Otherwise how about you stop and think about what the hell youre talking about.

The FDA approves an exemplar from the manufacturers who chose to submit one for testing. They don't sit next to the mailman rubber stamping the boxes after they shoot their buddy in the eye for 3 seconds.

You better hope your man there doesn't' have a G&P DBAL and pick the UV switch.

As for you shooting someone in the face pretty well everyone worth their salt is wearing a helmet, full seal goggles, a face mask and even ear protection. Getting shot in the face is a tickling contest.

The best advice I can offer you today is "don't be stupid".

[ThunderCactus]

1) Customs, the FDA, etc, doesn't check every single package that comes through the border. I've got plenty of items that I shouldn't have

2) You can STILL get the green 8mw lasers from G&P

3) A chinese manufacturer sends someone elses sample to the FDA to get approved then modifies their design to be cheaper. Come on, it's China, they don't play by the rules.

4) The real steel PEQ-15s that some people have operate on 2 settings; .6mw and motherfucking 30mw

5) A 5mw laser, designated "safe if handled properly" which specifically means you won't intentionally or unintentionally be shining it in someone's eye, when beamed through, say, a 4x scope, is now a serious risk.

We can play the minimum chance of occurrence game, but the fact is the serious threat is there. I'd rather not have the chance of beaming out someone's eye.

The "flammable gas" we use to power GBB's, is not actually very flammable as we're using the liquid instead of the vapor. Propane fueled torches and stoves are run off the vapor.

There's IS a point at which a flashlight starts to cause eye damage, but it's measured in luxes, not lumens. To more easily enforce the rule, many game hosts have banned flashlights over 300 lumens. Nobody knows what kind of luxes their flashlight is putting out.

Frags DO sometimes blow up in people's hands. But burned skin isn't as bad as losing eyesight.

[lurkingknight]

Originally Posted by Black Jack

.

You do know that FDA approves imported items also? Its stated even right at the begining of the OP here, did you read it? Also you know that its not the goal to shine lasers in anyones eyes during a game any more than it is to shoot people in the face with bbs. But ill take you up on your offer for science to prove if you're right. Ill let you shine an unregulated chinese laser pointer in my eyes for 3 seconds, if you let me shoot you in the face with a hot gun for 3 seconds, and we will see who has the worse day.

Otherwise how about you stop and think about what the hell youre talking about.

Originally Posted by Danke

The FDA approves an exemplar from the manufacturers who chose to submit one for testing. They don't sit next to the mailman rubber stamping the boxes after they shoot their buddy in the eye for 3 seconds.

You better hope your man there doesn't' have a G&P DBAL and pick the UV switch.

As for you shooting someone in the face pretty well everyone worth their salt is wearing a helmet, full seal goggles, a face mask and even ear protection. Getting shot in the face is a tickling contest.

The best advice I can offer you today is "don't be stupid".

^this.

What you think the difference between premium brand X safety product which is priced at 100$ and mystery chinese factory of the week selling a knockoff product at 10$ is?

Some of it is marketing budget sure.

I guarantee you that that ISO stamp and ansi and milspec stamping on premium brand X is exactly what it is, the product was sent for testing in manufacturing samples on a regular basis. That item is CERTIFIED by an outside company to be of that level of quality, manufacture and strength that the label says it is. You think that level of service is free?

You think that chinese factory Y somehow gets that service for free?
Or maybe they pay for it out of pocket and lose the money, just so they can sell you their questionably equal or inferior product at a loss, just for you? Faking safety certification and inspection stickers/stampings is a full blown art in china. The problem is so bad that inferior components are ending up in our military and the american military, and shit is failing. This is a serious problem for people with the money to spend on nice shit. Where REAL lives depend on this shit to work right.

Tell me how it's not a problem for people paying bottom dollar for lookalike, workalike products.


Edit:

How many pharmaceuticals have been OKed for human consumption by the FDA in the last 20 years but were pulled off the shelves with MASSIVE liabity/civil class action lawsuits because of unreported side effects?

Yeah, I trust the FDA alright.

[Gato]

Originally Posted by hattrick

Tell that to my blind spot. If you want to host your own laser friendly game, have fun. I will never partake in a game that has lasers. Ever. Ever. EVER.

I wear ear protection, my ears are safe. I wear gloves, my hands are safe. Continue to tell me other wise oh genie of wisdom.

As you can tell this topic angers me - alex

edit * all directed @ op

Good. If you have NF spots, sell em then.

Also, don't attend anything in the GTA, there are lasers at most of them.

[Ricochet]

Certain lasers are safe for use, certain others are not. I would not use a manufacturer that I could not hold responsible for their products. But Canadian, American, British, German, etc. There's only one laser you may even "need" in airsoft, and that's for IR to work with NV as a target designation. Also, you cannot risk others safety, unless within reasonable means. No one is running around with a sound device squealing at over 82 decibels close to my head, for long periods of time. Also, what are you deeming reasonably safe, a trained worker in an industrial setting using it as a tool, or a twelve year old with an airsoft gun, running around with his friends? There have been several cases, not just in airsoft, where people have had vision damage due focused lights and lasers. Why are you using a laser? Are you running an NV unit, and have the appropriate beam or emitter to go with it? Or do you just want one because it looks cool, albeit mostly useless in airsoft.

Anyone who has "ever" worked in the safety industry, or knows "anything" about OH&S guidelines, will tell you that "you must follow manufacturer's instructions". You're basic safety standards must meet or exceed all of these to be considered legitimate. Who's at risk, who's your manufacturer, do you know and understand the device you're operating, and are you certain of its safety and the safety of everyone involved? These are questions you need to ask. You find me a manufacturers guide on any laser, and show me where it says "you can shine this in your friends eyes".

[Jimski]

the problem is not lasers, it's these plastic pellets.
Where I play it's so bad we have to wear goggles

[Gato]

Originally Posted by Jimski

the problem is not lasers, it's these plastic pellets.
Where I play it's so bad we have to wear goggles

I know! Same here.

They also can leave marks and welts....

[Derpystronk]

I have a blind spot caused by a Green Laser. Not dangerous my ass.

Keep in mind I am the only host in the Province, and I believe the country, who allows visible lasers at his games. I still dont agree with your general thesis.

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Jimski

the problem is not lasers, it's these plastic pellets.
Where I play it's so bad we have to wear goggles

Try not getting shot. It's half the fun.

[HackD]

I've been involved with H&S for the better part of 20 years. The thing that made me minimize my involvement and leave it to younger and more patient people, is the seeming super-ability of other people to end-run around existing standards and safe work practices, and to do things in quite possibly the most dangerous way in order to save a little time, money or both.

Would i trust at face-value ANYTHING where safety is a prime consideration, coming out of China, unless i knew it had been thoroughly vetted by CSA or another safety standards organization? No.

Would i trust anything coming from outside of a Health and Safety specific supply house, when it comes to items meant to protect health and safety as it's primary function? Again, no.

The Chinese manufacturers have a well deserved reputation of doing everything possible in order to sell everything and anything that is possible to sell, regardless of it's standards of fabrication/construction/ingredients list. The health and welfare of people doesn't even come close to registering, in the consideration of the general costs of maximizing profit over there.

I've got a green NCStar laser.. the 'safety label' indicates that it is a >5mW 532nm output laser.. it puts out an impressive finger of death on the Mp5 that it is mounted upon for wall-hanger use.. but it'll never see a field again, from the first time taking it out into the field, at dark, and seeing it disappear into the clouds..

[c3sk]

Relevant:

Don't you put it in your mouth. - YouTube

[ShelledPants]

Rule of thumb: Designed, tested, rated, and sold for Military Training. Good to go.

Toy designed to look like a military laser like thing. Stay away.

Can the toys be tested and deemed safe? Sure, on a one by one basis, but it's a hell of a lot safer from a field's perspective just to ban em. They serve a select few's purpose (IR laser's for nightvision aiming is pretty much the ONLY reason you should be running a laser.) and that crowd can afford to pay top dollar to ensure you aren't harming SOMEONE ELSE.

Remember, this isn't a decision to neglect your own safety, it's willful neglect of everyone else's safety, and that should not be tolerated by anyone.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Black Jack

Therefore if you own a laser legally, it is class 1, 2, or 3a in some measure, The majority of red or green laser sights are class 3A. and is not harmful. I repeat: not harmful. If there was a laser on the market with serious risk of harming anyone, you wouldn’t have been able to buy it. And even if you could’ve done so illegally or gotten a foreign laser that’s built outside of regulations, a handheld laser powered by AA batteries simply doesn’t have the power output to pose a serious risk. You would have to hold the beam on the same pinpoint spot on a person for such an extended time to cause harm, its not considered a serious health threat in the hands of every day consumers.

As stated before, made in chinese. People lied about their laser rating
American FDA have reported cases of laser power greatly exceeded what they claimed.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/il...lpointers.html

This is not about annoyance, it's about permanent eye damage. In airsoft people cheap out of stuff included eye protection, what makes you think they won't cheap out on laser at the cost of other's safety? As much as I love the money coming from civil suit for using laser that resulted in permanent eye damage, I prefer to keep my eyesight.

Those PEQ box lasers are a great example. On AR-15.com, someone made an IR laser out of the PEQ-15 w/ green laser using a 720mm filter (removes all visible wave length and keep only IR spectrum of 720mm and greater). What this demostrate is that a 5mW green laser may be 5mW, but it may contain much more IR radiation. The conversion rate of doubling an IR laser to make the visible green is not efficient, having a 50mW green with 200mw IR is not unheard of.



I have no problem if people run Eye-safe laser, but the fact that people cheap out on other folk's cost is disturbing.

As a game organizer, I have no problem with people running Insight PEQ-2A (with high power lock installed and on), Insight PEQ-15 (high power lock), LDI DBAL -Civilian version, or FDA-approved lasers. If you plan on running the G&P DBAL, I will say no because that thing is Class IV on both visible and IR