Fight club custom

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

I have FCC motor, its way lower than unwound and rewounded motor.

What do you mean lower? is it a 2.0 or 2.5?

[kullwarrior]

not sure how that came out, but I meant louder

[Warlock]

Is there a list of models availlable with pictures and specs ?

Pretty excited to get one of these beast

[phloudernow]

Originally Posted by Warlock

Is there a list of models availlable with pictures and specs ?

Pretty excited to get one of these beast

check out their Facebook page

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I have had some issues with their motor. I installed one last week to replace a 2012 motor, and the brush leads were routed on the left side of the brush hoods. If this is not rectified, the motor will stop when the last of the brushes is worn down, but prior to that the commutator will be arc damaged.

Secondly, the finish work on the brush hoods was horrid. Lots of extra material which exceeded the endbell and lead to a nearly impossible installation of the grip and a very difficult removal of the grip. And this was the supposedly wider 2012 grip. The only solution is to tear down the motor and grind down the brush hoods and the insulators, I would not recommend doing it while they are installed on the motor.

Longevity is too early to tell, but it was way noisier than a Systema motor with a rewound armature.

Months back while talking to Chris, he had mentioned mixed reviews on their motors. I've read a few myself and they range from; it's superior to the Systema motor, to it has the same or similar problems. Time will tell wether or not the FCC motors stand up.

As Macguyver has mentioned; the Systema motor has a manufacturing flaw, not an design one. I've personally seen what a rewound Systema motor can do. My 480 lasted from 2006 - 2010, and easily saw hundreds of thousands of rounds through it. This was after it had the armature redone of course. In fact, it only died when I smashed it on the ground at Cold Front II. I'll tell you, the Jedis felt that one. After that, I installed a 490 Systema motor. After almost two seasons it died, and has just now had it's armature done. If it follows suit, I'll get a few years out of it before it's finished.

I am upset that Systema did not fix this problem with the 2012, but the FCC are still untested on a large scale here. I'm excited to see what they can do though. But the performance difference will be so miniscule, it's longevity that'll make the difference. I'd rather have a Systema motor fail, get rewound, and last years; than an FCC one that lasts a little longer than the Systema one initially does.

Either way; if it's Systema or FCC (really anything PTW), the Double Tap is the way to go. Your not going to find a more honest guy than Chris to deal with.

[Invasian]

+ 10000

Chris helped pop my PTW cherry earlier this year....amazing guy to deal with.

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Either way; if it's Systema or FCC (really anything PTW), the Double Tap is the way to go. Your not going to find a more honest guy than Chris to deal with.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

As Macguyver has mentioned; the Systema motor has a manufacturing flaw, not an design one. I've personally seen what a rewound Systema motor can do. My 480 lasted from 2006 - 2010, and easily saw hundreds of thousands of rounds through it. This was after it had the armature redone of course. In fact, it only died when I smashed it on the ground at Cold Front II. I'll tell you, the Jedis felt that one. After that, I installed a 490 Systema motor. After almost two seasons it died, and has just now had it's armature done. If it follows suit, I'll get a few years out of it before it's finished.

I am upset that Systema did not fix this problem with the 2012, but the FCC are still untested on a large scale here. I'm excited to see what they can do though. But the performance difference will be so miniscule, it's longevity that'll make the difference. I'd rather have a Systema motor fail, get rewound, and last years; than an FCC one that lasts a little longer than the Systema one initially does.

This what made me dump all my Systema in the first place I've had their gen 1 to their latest version all of them had issues with the exception of the TW5 and the Tac/DTT modified version is the logest running PTW I ever owned, it is sad and aggrevating when a company refused to fix an ongoing issue that spread over three major market, instead of fixing the issue tehy came up with another monstrosity in teh version mad max. From first hand experience my relationship with FCC have been great, my TW worked great with no issues or other gremlins when I want it and customer service and support from both FCC and DTT is freakin awesome. Currently I'm putting this custom TW through it's paces and so far it has surpassed my 2012 Evolution by a great mile, this will be an on going test for the next three months putting roughly around 2000 rnds/week if not more (so far I've used about 8.5 bags of .25 bastards). So far aside from the initial warm motor in the beginning after the first testing, it has never failed or jammed yet.

[IggysPiggy]

I went the buy a used 2008+ ptw and im gonna just buy FCC internals/elec, and just wait for her to give out on me then do a complete swap over, or just motor if that goes first. real question what are the actual differences of there speed/torque boxs? is the speed really that much more noticable and worth it? ima semi kinda guy so torque seems more practical specialy since we run 425-440fps.

how much faster is your speed box really?+ 4-6 rps?

[Ricochet]

I have a gen 1 PTW M16 A3. I had it modified to handle the newer style cylinders. It has my original 2007 mechbox from the gun I smashed. It's on it's second set of boards, and second motor. After so many years, that's a fairly low cost to keep it running. If you take care of it, the only thing to worry about is to have your motor rewound. But then it goes for years.


I can verify that the Final Evolution (2012) guns are superior in performance to the prior models. Not by much, but the difference is noticeable.

[m102404]

I actually feel a bit of survivors guilt that my kit/scavange built 2007 upgrade to 2008 PTW has actually had zero issues once it was working (side selector board needed to be replaced where the little micro switch was gummed up, motor worked fine, I modded the hopup...nothing else to do). The motor has been going strong but I think it's showing it's age/wear and tear. Sum total of issues I've had with it are mags that can't feed fast enough in full auto (doesn't really matter to me) and a broken piston rack when there was a bad jam and the piston didn't go forward before the sector came around.

I can't pull the trigger faster in in semi to really notice a difference with an FCC build. I think it's a faster shot cycle...but the difference is beyond what I could need.

I'm on the fence on whether to scoop up a good deal on a 2008 and mod/upgrade it as necessary with FCC parts...or to go with what basically amounts to a tuned and QC'd build (IMO) from FCC.

Don't need it because my PTW is still trucking along...but it's an attractive lure out there to start another build.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by IggysPiggy

I went the buy a used 2008+ ptw and im gonna just buy FCC internals/elec, and just wait for her to give out on me then do a complete swap over, or just motor if that goes first. real question what are the actual differences of there speed/torque boxs? is the speed really that much more noticable and worth it? ima semi kinda guy so torque seems more practical specialy since we run 425-440fps.

how much faster is your speed box really?+ 4-6 rps?

it's not much of a speed factor the difference between the speed and torque box is the difference in metal material in the gears where the speed box are recommended for the weaker spring (M95-M135) and the torque box (M135 and up, the heaviest I believe was some guy using a M170 type)is for heavier DMR style application where single shot with a heavier spring come to use more often than burst or auto fire. I have their torque box which was ordered by mistake it's about 108gr heavier than their speed box on my rifle. I will have a torque box in my NST race rifle build from them soon. The full auto function is way to fast for the mags to keep up beside I rarely do full auto.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

I have a gen 1 PTW M16 A3. I had it modified to handle the newer style cylinders. It has my original 2007 mechbox from the gun I smashed. It's on it's second set of boards, and second motor. After so many years, that's a fairly low cost to keep it running. If you take care of it, the only thing to worry about is to have your motor rewound. But then it goes for years.


I can verify that the Final Evolution (2012) guns are superior in performance to the prior models. Not by much, but the difference is noticeable.

Wow a Gen1? mine lasted 3 games before the boards go crazy on me, it would auto fire without pulling the trigger and eventually dead

Originally Posted by m102404

I actually feel a bit of survivors guilt that my kit/scavange built 2007 upgrade to 2008 PTW has actually had zero issues once it was working (side selector board needed to be replaced where the little micro switch was gummed up, motor worked fine, I modded the hopup...nothing else to do). The motor has been going strong but I think it's showing it's age/wear and tear. Sum total of issues I've had with it are mags that can't feed fast enough in full auto (doesn't really matter to me) and a broken piston rack when there was a bad jam and the piston didn't go forward before the sector came around.

I can't pull the trigger faster in in semi to really notice a difference with an FCC build. I think it's a faster shot cycle...but the difference is beyond what I could need.

I'm on the fence on whether to scoop up a good deal on a 2008 and mod/upgrade it as necessary with FCC parts...or to go with what basically amounts to a tuned and QC'd build (IMO) from FCC.

Don't need it because my PTW is still trucking along...but it's an attractive lure out there to start another build.

It's still a freak of nature on how your PTW, made of differents parts last a whole lot longer than my factory QC POS

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Wow a Gen1? mine lasted 3 games before the boards go crazy on me, it would auto fire without pulling the trigger and eventually dead

It had new planetaries, sector gear, lefthand gearbox shell, hopup, trigger EL001 and EL003, buffer cap, stock pipe, motor, and motor endplate. Essentially, it was brought up to the same performance level as a 2007 MAX.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

It had new planetaries, sector gear, lefthand gearbox shell, hopup, trigger EL001 and EL003, buffer cap, stock pipe, motor, and motor endplate. Essentially, it was brought up to the same performance level as a 2007 MAX.

Mine was stock, the first one pimp daddy Tru got, went to Wasaga that weekend played the first two games fine, the third one after about two mags on single it started to fart burst then full auto then it went dead.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Mine was stock, the first one pimp daddy Tru got, went to Wasaga that weekend played the first two games fine, the third one after about two mags on single it started to fart burst then full auto then it went dead.

The FETs on the old Gen 1 board had no low-voltage protections and would usually fail closed and the gun would run on.

Gen 3 had that, but only 2 voltage regulators and 4 drive FETs and those would fail, occasionally closed, but mainly open.

I had about 5-6 Gen 1 M16s and they all got upgrades, some to Gen 4.