Armist BB's

[Drakker]

Vlad once told me they come from the same factory the Bastards do. He said they would be exactly the same... but that was before they were available for sale. Since then, I learned to always take what Vlad says with a grain of salt...

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Vlad once told me they come from the same factory the Bastards do. He said they would be exactly the same... but that was before they were available for sale. Since then, I learned to always take what Vlad says with a grain of salt...

Vlad is spouting absolute and utter bullshit.

I had a chance to compare a small sample provided to me to shoot and split. Put them side by side or split them in half and you can see the differences between finish and when split, you can see the difference in strata and distribution. They aren't my product or anything near it.

This is a review of the Armist product and its not my place to hijack it, but since Vlad chose to mention my product (both in the store and to certain parties I've spoken to) I feel I can post a response. I can tell everyone unequivocally these are not the same as the Bastards, nor do they come from the same factory as Bastards, full stop.

I also take exception to the "double polish" claim on the bag. You know why? I invented the descriptive for the polish method we us - nobody else here or in asia calls it that, and its not a technical industry term. While the sincerest form of flattery is imitation, this is what would generously be called plagerism, or at worst legally, infringement. Also, to be blunt, if it was really the finish I use, it wouldn't jam like a sonofabitch.

All I can really say is Vlad is a piece of work. Caveat Emptor.

[Slono]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Vlad once told me they come from the same factory the Bastards do. He said they would be exactly the same... but that was before they were available for sale. Since then, I learned to always take what Vlad says with a grain of salt...

+1... dammit.

[Scarecrow]

Lets look at what is obvious:

To address the many, many PMs I've had on this issue:

- No, I have not authorized any use of my product, logo or methods
- No, I have not sublicensed or ricebagged my product to be produced under the Armist label
- No, Armist not using my supplier or technologies
- No, Armist is not rebranded BB Bastard

If Vlad has told you any of this, its a lie. He's on record for several things in regards to this and I've been aware of it for some months now. The question I am looking into is who authorized the production of the bag label and the claims, as they are liable for the infringement of those claims. I know of three retailers carrying the product and each are former Bastards. Each retailer involved didn't like the margins that Bastards bring (at $5000 orders about 25% - typical retailers want about 40%) so they've saught a cheaper way to meet their margins. I keep my pricing a certain way so that field Bastards who put HUGE grassroots efforts into the promotion and supply of the product aren't ripped off by retailer underselling.

But retailers selling their own brand, thats fine, I don't have a problem with that. Just don't try and rip my product off and sell a substandard look-a-like and make verbal claims about its origins being the same as mine.

I was approached by Cybergun group back in the fall of 2009 for a quantity inquiry and they put a huge order on the table should I allow them to ricebag it to them under their label. I told them no. The quantities were enormous. You know why? They wanted to rebrand it. So, if I am not whoring myself out to one of the largest airsoft distributors in NA, why would I do it for a select few in Canada? The answer is I won't because thats not what the brand or the product is about. IF I ever chose to sublicense the product, YOU would hear about it, plain and simple, because the announcement would come from me and the Bastard label would be on it.

[KND]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Vlad once told me they come from the same factory the Bastards do. He said they would be exactly the same... but that was before they were available for sale. Since then, I learned to always take what Vlad says with a grain of salt...

He actually told me like that as well.

Edit : I will get a video up tomorrow with my SCAR test before she goes to a new home. I have both .25 BBs Bastard and Armist.

[Styrak]

Scarecrow, I don't really see any similarities in the bags.
Weight and round count, yeah? What else are they going to put on it?
Seems to be an original design to me.

[ex]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Scarecrow, I don't really see any similarities in the bags.
Weight and round count, yeah? What else are they going to put on it?
Seems to be an original design to me.

I can see where Scarecrow is going with this. IF Vlad is in fact trying to sell these under the guise that they come from the same manufacturer as BBB's do it's a real douche move and one that could potentially carry some nasty legal ramifications.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Scarecrow, I don't really see any similarities in the bags.
Weight and round count, yeah? What else are they going to put on it?
Seems to be an original design to me.

Funny enough, I wasn't the first one to point this out. Ever since that label appeared on the SurplusIG webstore, my PMs and emails were fairly regular citing the similarities. With Vlad's comments, the claims and the bag label, "double polish", as a whole, there is a prior art copyright case. Vlad's comments alone, as witnessed by many, are evidence of intent to mislead to gain a purchase, and thats undeniable. The association with my product with his claims, PLUS the bag really doesn't make it disputable. Also advertising BB Bastards and then telling people its out of stock and suggesting these instead is bait and switch. I could go on, but I think its pretty obvious.

The walk-in experience in Quebec may be different from your end of things in the west, and I've not heard you making any such claims, so I don't think you're being disingenious in what you've said, but you and I have done business in the past, and I know you're a switch on kinda guy, I think you see the similarities, its just rather uncomfortable for you to admit it.

[Styrak]

In any case, Vlad has been let go as of....I'm not sure, a few months ago I think.

Like you said I don't mean to be disingenuous and I've never touted these as coming from the same factory to my customers or anything like that. I also didn't know "double polish" WASN'T a "common industry term".

Also sorry, but "switch on kind of guy"? As in I'm not dumb, etc?

[pusangani]

as in you flick his switch big boy

hehehe jk

Vlad has made himself less than popular in his local scene, and the store likely didn't want his negative rep to affect their revenues so they distanced themselves from him?

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Also sorry, but "switch on kind of guy"? As in I'm not dumb, etc?

Observant and informed and not likely to be bullshitted. Hows that for a translation?

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Observant and informed and not likely to be bullshitted. Hows that for a translation?

Haha, I was thinking along those lines.

Thanks!

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by pusangani

Vlad has made himself less than popular in his local scene, and the store likely didn't want his negative rep to affect their revenues so they distanced themselves from him?

Possibly. Issac,whom I don't know has been pretty quiet through all of this but then again, not all of us have ASC as a homepage, so I don't expect insta-participation from everyone, but my PM did go unanswered in any form, so we simply don't know his side of the story.

Problem around here is if you don't fill in the blanks, within 10 minutes there will be at least four rumors started, one involving a Thai hooker, and at least another involving your impending death. The rest are a crap shoot.

[Armyissue]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Problem around here is if you don't fill in the blanks, within 10 minutes there will be at least four rumors started, one involving a Thai hooker, and at least another involving your impending death. The rest are a crap shoot.

shit the Uusual sex nazi really knows his balls

[KEVORKIAN]

Originally Posted by immortalundead

If anyone wants to do some further testing, I can get a couple bags of samples sent out to them.

PM sent with my shipping address & contact info...I'm all for testing these in my PTW's, GBB's & GBBR's !!!!