See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by shiftsup

Has anyone actually witnessed somebody wearing shorts, runners and a t shirt at an airsoft game playing with a Crosman Cantiresoft or a Walsoft gun?

.

Tank top and shorts with sneakers - YES clearsoft NO

It was Lynch and I years ago at Wasaga, Lynch even showed up at an indoor game with a trench coat along with Cpl Lao at paintball city

again it is not about the gears its about the attitude.

[MadMax]

I played a couple games in the very hot summer weather topless in shorts. Once I was playing in Japan (35C temp, full sun, then you tack on humidity). I was taking fire standing on top of a short building. I went to ground and found myself laying prone on the sheet steel roof that had been baking in the sun all day. That hurt a hell of a lot more than wussy 1J hits.

[arman]

so back to the headshot thing... heres a video of a guy only exposing his head and a BIT of his gun.... someone said that "if the guy is shooting at you he is exposing more than his head..." tell me how you shoot this guy??? im the cameraman but he deserves to get it in the face...

YouTube - headshot

talk about realisim the forces take and get headshots.... if you are going for realisim either take it like a man or wear a FULL FACE MASK! i wear a full face mask.

for all you non hit callers its the best way to keep people honest, its hard to not call your hit when your screaming like a girl... and about trigger control 1 time i was taking video and "someone" came in the room i scared them they put a handgun up to my side and fired it!! hes now a staff member here so it can happen to anyone.... did i get mad?? nope it was MY fault for being there.... even IF i was playing i should take steps to ensure that it didnt happen again! it was not buddys fault right the saint?

[arman]

sorry i dont like to edit as it makes you look like your hiding somthing....

airsoft guns are not accurate enough to hit buddys gun in the video.... so what do you do??

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by arman

so back to the headshot thing... heres a video of a guy only exposing his head and a BIT of his gun.... someone said that "if the guy is shooting at you he is exposing more than his head..." tell me how you shoot this guy??? im the cameraman but he deserves to get it in the face...

If all I see is their head. I'll shoot their head. I'd expect them to do the same to me. It's war.

EDIT: Also, the amount of times the guy breaks his line, it would be easy to take him as he pops up for a pot shot.

Also, +1 to what wildcard said below.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by arman

so back to the headshot thing... heres a video of a guy only exposing his head and a BIT of his gun.... someone said that "if the guy is shooting at you he is exposing more than his head..." tell me how you shoot this guy??? im the cameraman but he deserves to get it in the face...

YouTube - headshot

talk about realisim the forces take and get headshots.... if you are going for realisim either take it like a man or wear a FULL FACE MASK! i wear a full face mask.

for all you non hit callers its the best way to keep people honest, its hard to not call your hit when your screaming like a girl... and about trigger control 1 time i was taking video and "someone" came in the room i scared them they put a handgun up to my side and fired it!! hes now a staff member here so it can happen to anyone.... did i get mad?? nope it was MY fault for being there.... even IF i was playing i should take steps to ensure that it didnt happen again! it was not buddys fault right the saint?

Either you or one of your team keep shooting to keep his head down and move towards him at the same time then when you have a better angle put two in his chest or a third and walk away smilling. it works everytime.
you don't keep yourself hunkered down when you are fighting a bunkered player you always move towards your target not away.

[ex]

Originally Posted by shiftsup

Has anyone seen somebody show up like this at a game posted on ASC?

Yes...This year alone I have seen two people wearing shorts and a truck load of white Nike's.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by ex

Yes...This year alone I have seen two people wearing shorts and a truck load of white Nike's.

I like to call them bunny rabbits.

[m102404]

Can't keep up with this thread...sorry. I try to read all the posts...but it's just going around in circles.

I'm going to arrange a CQB event Aug 31st. Typically, I set out very stringent min standards (for mil-sim'ers/established guys it's just their regular stuff...for some, they're just not equiped and don't come)....but I think for this one I'm going to change things up.

Here's the game/event thread:
CQB Aug 31st - Open Event


It'll be welcome to everyone/anyone/noob-vet-whatever (aside from the 2-3 people who are not welcome....for the safety and continued enjoyment of the other players). How well or how poorly they're equiped is immaterial.

Honestly, even if they have nothing, it'll still be worth it.

We'll cover the standard stuff:
- safety, conduct, expectations
- answer any/all questions
- CQB/tactics/teamwork

I'll do my personal best to help equip guys who are missing stuff...I hope others will help me. I REALLY hope that some of the regular "vets" will continue to come out to this one to lend a hand and guide the tone of the evening. I fully realize that I'll be asking those guys to donate their time/efforts...and my appreciation is huge up front.

There should be no expectation that food or water will be supplied (although the owner has so-far graciously provided as much water and gatorade as we can drink).

So...there it is. If you get your shit together enough to walk through the door...there'll be people on the other side that'll provide as much help as you want.

Can't think of what else is possible...

Tys

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Torque

I have a quick question. Are you guys mad at people that show up to their first game in jeans and have a clearsoft or ones that play for more then a few months like that. How long does one have between their first game and requireing all the goods needed?

Part of the problem is people are coming to their first game with a $30 Walmart gun. Of course they don't want to have to drop $70 "just for clothes."

For informal games/skirmishes no one cares about, I suppose it's okay if they just want to try it out. But if they decide its a sport they want to get into, they should invest in proper equipment.

Just like you can play an informal game of hockey or football with buddies with no gear but if you're joining a league you better have proper gear, including a proper gun. You don't show up at a dirt bike track with a moped even though it's technically also a motorcycle.

I have a friend that started playing this summer: she went out and got BDUs and boots and proper goggles. There's no excuse for not doing it. Yes, some people are short on funds, but damnit it's a HOBBY: it costs money, you aren't obligated to be there, don't ruin it for everyone by being halfassed about participating just because you can't be bothered to save up a bit to do it properly.

Originally Posted by Mitchell12

Buy some fucking OD or Woodland, There's no excuse not too if you plan on playing more then your first game. Even for scrims, Just do it. It's cheap as hell.

QTF

Originally Posted by mcguyver

It is the responsibility of the player to kit himself out, not the responsibility of others to provide for him. When I go to any game, I have rifle with a functional backup. I have a GBB with a functional back-up. I have my planned BDUs for the day, as well as kit with a fallback for a lighter load if it is hot.

Here here.

Originally Posted by Shrike

I think a big problem that hurt "oldschool" airsoft in Canada (Ont. at least) has been the invention and common use of the internet.

wtf shrike? you say. The people that I first played with (like Scarecrow described, in '04 for me) ALLOWED you to attend a game and you were watched.

I remember days on ASC when that was also the case. We only got 1-2 new guys a week and they got squared away pretty fast. But now there's a massive influx of new people, and a lot of blind leading the blind because a lot of the vets got fed up and are doing their own thing in private.

[Torque]

So the issue is during milsims then and not airsoft in general?

[Metternich]

Originally Posted by Torque

So the issue is during milsims then and not airsoft in general?

Yes and no. The main issue is an influx of more newer players with a piss poor attitude towards the hobby and community (this being a result of the growing availability of clearsoft to the general public). Players with a crappy attitude can ruin even a casual skirmish.
On the the topic of gear alone (completely ignoring the player), it is only an issue at a milsim event. Players not making even a minimal effort in putting together a kit can be a bit of a mood killer at a milsim event.

[Crunchmeister]

Cansoft guns don't mean shit. So where are these "cheap guns" that everyone is moaning about. I'd love to see them. When I look at these Cansoft guns, I see markups that are still 200-300%, just like the evil, illegal black guns. There are no cheap guns. There are only more easily accessible guns that are of significantly higher quality than previous all clear alternatives that were both cheap and total garbage. Cheap Aftermath, Crosman and Tactical Force clear garbage has been readily available long before the higher end cansoft guns have. They didn't kill airsoft before. Why do they now? ICS and G&G make higher quality guns that are good starting platforms for new players, and they're completely legal. Nothing wrong with that.

2 years ago when I started, I heard the same crew pissing and moaning that "cheap" China clones were the death of airsoft. Didn't happen then, and it certainly didn't dilute airsoft in any way that I could perceive. Guns were still ridiculously expensive and just as hard to get as the "good stuff", and as ridiculously overpriced (in terms of markup). It just allowed someone with a lower starting budget to get a halfway decent starter gun without having to sell their ass on a street corner to get it. And that's the market that these cansoft guns are now filling.

There is a larger proliferation of guns now with cansoft because people are legally permitted to import and sell them. It makes them more accessible to the general public. There are now an assload of online sources, as well as brick & mortar stores where one can walk in and buy these cansoft guns. They're still horribly overpriced because of a few importers that don't give 2 shits about the airsoft community, but rather to line their own pockets, decided to corner the market with certain brands, and have minimum pricing agreements in place with their retailers to fix the prices to maximize their profits. But they're now readily available.

And this brings me to where I think a big part of the problem lies here on ASC. ASC has become about turning a healthy profit now rather than to bettering the AS community. They'll let anyone who can fork out the retailer fee sell whatever the fuck they want in the classifieds, including the lowest end crapsoft on the market. A couple of years ago, these same dealers would have been shown the door so fast their heads would be spinning. Now as long as they can pay the retailer fee, they have no restrictions. That basically took what was a bar set high and removed it completely in the name of profit. The AV system is now MEANINGLESS when it comes to the retailer section. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Everything that is sold in the AV retailer section can easily and readily be purchased online from a variety of other (or the same) sources right here in Canada for the same price. For the private sales, AV still has value, but for the retailers, it means zip and just serves to legitimize someone selling crapsoft.

As was mentioned repeatedly by the wiser, more level-headed vets, the tool doesn't make the player. A shit player with a PTW will be as shitty as a shit player with a Kraken. A good player with a well maintened and tweaked Kraken will still own a shitty player with a PTW. Blaming the decline of the sport on the tool is retarded. I can show up at a game with a well painted G&G Cansoft gun, and it will make absolutely no difference in terms of looks or my performance as a player. Blaming clear plastic is rather short-sighted. It's more about the attitude and quality of the players than it is about the gun they're shooting. I've played with more total dickheads with high end guns far more often than I have with noobs with low end guns and are willing to learn and get into the game.

Anyway, that's just my rant. As you can tell, I went from spending my days here on ASC to now only occasionally visiting. A combination of the commercialization of ASC, the flame-fests, and noob-on-noob Q&A sessions that permeate the board just turned me off totally. This place went from being a great resource for players to becoming a place that bends over backwards to catering to the crapsoft kiddies. And at the other end of the scale, we have the elitist pricks who will spit at and belittle anyone who isn't sporting a $4000 gun loaded with all real steel accessories. You guys are equally responsible for ruining this place as the profit-oriented management and the kiddie crapsoft noobs are.

[Jayne Finch]

figured this should be in here. ive posted a noob day

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...48#post1041648

[Assault Pioneer]

I've worked at a paintball field for 4 years and never once saw someone come in with a shitty canadian tire $34 pump action paintball gun and civilian rigs, there is always a starting level with paintball, usually a tippmann and some coverals or old hoodie, normal as most paintball games only last as long as your first night of romance, no need for ball hauling gear.

But Airsoft is a completely different animal, games can last for days, its not being elitest to have to wear bdu's and webbing/vests you gotta. So why all the kids/inexperienced showing up with stingers and sneakers?

The Airsoft community is its own downfall, most on here treat airsoft as their own society, the sport isnt very public friendly and most want to keep it away from others in an attempt to conserve it, Airsoft is a secret society not a public sport. the only way to attain information in canada is asc, and we all know the FAQ's are never read. we all found this sport by accident or word of mouth, not on t.v or in an article.

The newer generations of canadian airsofters more than likely discovered airsoft at Canadian tire or Walmart either that or their american xbox live buddies have talked about it so they googled it. All they see is these totally clear airsoft toys, not guns, and they want to play. Relating back to my first paragraph People show up to paintball knowing what to expect. they see the games on tv, read the catalogues and always know atleast someones who plays the sport. Airsoft does not have that kind of community so many are unprepared, under equipped and unwilling to challenge the veterans. the guns are seen as toy's so they expect younger people and a more casual setting when they go to a field. whenever explaining airsoft to friends I always had to go out of my way to explain REAL airsoft to them. Realistic guns will never come back to retailers and will only be available through asc, which is good, aswell as the clear reciever's of the G&G's and ICS' are guns respected by the airsoft community.

Its the lack of publicity combined with the flood of these ultra low quality crapsoft guns in canada, people have a known expectation to play a proper paintball game so they come properly equipped, in canada they think that the crapsoft guns are the standard till you point them to the Verifiers page, Mach1 or 007.

In scottland there is a law that you require a permit to realistic airsoft guns, all who dont have to buy ones with blue or green upper recievers and arent allowed to paint them. its not so bad at all because these guns are brands like ares, G&G, CA etc. very much like the clear reciever only guns here in canada. there are the realistic gunners and those who havent got the permit, but game performance does not falter. their games over there are massive and lots of fun to watch and play.

Its just the overpublicized crapsoft in the canadian tire vs the under rated real airsoft guns.

Crapsofters play in their own enclaves and when they want to reach the asc communities we seem to be doing a good job at saying "no, go buy a real airsoft gun" they either will or give up after that. and with more and more crapsofter out there the more realistic arsoft guns they will find and hopefully join us with. There will always be the asshole who will blatently ignore our rules and want to rape our sport just as there is in paintball.

We may have to put up with them on asc but not in the field, we can still turn them down till properly equipped and armed like in the good ole days. Like at my paintball field your not allowed to play in sneakers and a shitball gun, rent or get geared, and the real paintball community grew by a tenfold in a month. We can do the same in Airsoft And I suspect growth. and with growth, yes the groth of retards, higher population of anything comes with higher populations of negative, this is true to everything.

So if you stayed with me and my poor typing in summery.

1. Airsoft is a society that is turning into a public sport. there will be growing pains and resistance to change, from all sides (vets, noobs and the public)

2. Canadian tire, walmart and Bass pro are toys, not guns. they are the problem it seams, although none are in the fields. the clear reciever only guns are tollerable and should be bought instead of them. airsoft games are 18+ you should be able to afford one.

3. When the clear reciever only gun is more popular will and understood in the public eye similar to paintball. lesser will the "oh my god he's got a gun" 911 calls

4. I will not tollerate shit guns in my fields, neither should you. tell the noobs to rearm and regroup.

this transition will be bumpy at first, with more and more regulations and trials ahead, but I predict the elite will not be hindered in their gameplay, they do afterall get to choose who they play with, we all do. and the more the noobs watch the elite the more they will want to become them, and more combat effective players will hit the fields. however this wont happen for a few years. But I do believe a standard for gameplay and mindset will be established for airsoft thats public friendly.

Airsoft wont fall to idiots and lawmakers, its only in a rough patch. all we have to keep doing is saying "no" to the ill equipped or ill minded noobs and we should filter them out to create a respectable airsoft community. yes thare is always the idiot who takes it into the streets with his dumbass friends but they are the ones who generally only buy the shit guns, I havent heard a story involving TM's or CA's in a long time, and thats thanks to our asc community verifier regulation.

remember
Murphy's military law #123. Professionals are predictable, its the amateurs that are dangerous.

just keep saying no and we'll sift out the idiots with stingers from the respectable comrades