BB Bastard Silica .28g bb's

[Shooting Addict]

Originally Posted by GreyFox132

Mouth guards/ face masks should be a mandatory thing for fields,

NO

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Kid

And I think the main concern is safety of eyes and teeth, rather than safety of ABS plastic. I don't remember anyone saying that they were worried about their guns breaking under a hail of BB fire.

On the contrary there has been a lot of concern expressed over this issue in regards to equipment as well as glass and props at a field. Thats primarily what this thread has been about, not goggle safety. I don't dismiss your concern, its just this isn't the thread for it.

That being said, for your benefit:

There are several threads, this being only one that discusses the matter. Its been a rather fragmented discussion over the past few months. Some of the discussion was addressed in BioVAL threads and reviews. You have to search around for it. Like I've said before and I will say again, this is player-choice driven. If you don't want to use them or play with them, don't. Hosts and field owners will have a position on it and its perfectly fair to ask if they are being used and if you're not comfortable with it and they are on the field, don't play at that game.

Those choices are out of my control, but, I personally feel the risk is marginal compared to styrene or PLA. And if you are concerned to that level, then I would also recommend a more aggressive PPE policy on your goggles, replacing the lenses annually and replacing them whenever you take a hit on them - thats industrial health and safety policy North America wide when it comes to ANSI rated eye protection. My point in this is most people don't even do that, which I think puts them at even greater risk than playing with these.

[Kid]

What about damage to inner barrels? Since these are a lot harder than regular BBs, would they be prone to cause damage to our tightbores? (Especially soft metal, coated bores, and/or dirty barrels?)

[Scarecrow]

So far no reports of problems in that regard...

[VooDooPeteK]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

My point in this is most people don't even do that, which I think puts them at even greater risk than playing with these.

Agreed

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Kid

What about damage to inner barrels? Since these are a lot harder than regular BBs, would they be prone to cause damage to our tightbores? (Especially soft metal, coated bores, and/or dirty barrels?)

I run tightbores and I've run about 5 bags through mine and have not seen any kind of damage whatsoever. I don't recommend these for the Gen1 PTW crowd that tends to chop BBs - I owned one so thats from experience. As I've said on ASC in the past if you find styrene particulate in your feedpath on a regular basis, you've got an issue, as your gun is deformating or cutting BBs. With silica, it is harder, so the BB will not give, those parts of your feedpath will.

I found it odd that I even had to mention it because, at least back in my day of AEG maintenance, when you found BB particulate in your feedpath, you immediately ceased use of the gun and got it repaired by a gundoc - the particulate indicated a problem. I think because of come AEG models regularly chopping BBs, some people think this is normal AEG behaviour - it is not, you have an issue that needs to be addressed. Hence its just another topic of discussion in the ASU AEG101 course. People have asked my why are we teaching a basic AEG course - this is an example of why.

The flip side is, if you don't have styrene particulate in your feedpath, you're good to go.

Just wait. If you think Silica was hard, you're going to be blown away by the next BB Bastard product release.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Kid

...or dirty barrels?

Doesn't matter the BB - if you have dirt or sand in the barrel and you shoot anything through it, if the dirt is harder than the finish inside the barrel, it will scratch it - has nothing to do with styrene, ECO or Silica.

[VooDooPeteK]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Just wait. If you think Silica was hard, you're going to be blown away by the next BB Bastard product release.

is it normal that I got excited then I got to that part?

[Scarecrow]

This is a crosspost from Kimbo over at JOCAirsoft in Alberta where some of this debate was going on (its gone quiet now, most people who want to play with Silica are playing with it.). This may be what some of you are looking for.

Please note that Kimbo is an independent player and not affiliated with BB Bastard.


http://www.jocairsoft.com/forums/ind...s/page__st__80

Originally Posted by Kimbo

Ok I had some time to run some tests of my own and this is what I found.( I'll apoligize now for the big pictures, but it's hard to see with the pictures being any smaller.)

I went out today and bought some brand new Radian shooting glasses from the nice people down and 911 Supply. They are rated to meet ANSI Z87.1 requirements and are $10. I thought I'd test on a pair of inexpensive glasses so that it's not like I tested on some $100+ glasses that may not be affordable to all players. That and I didn't feel like throwing $100 in the garbage today.


For the test, I supported the glasses on a rolled up piece of high density foam stood vertically so that it resembled a head and wedged it into an alocove in my basement. Nice and sturdy.

I used 2 AEG's for the test. the first gun shot 495fps with .2 g bb's and the second shot 295fps with .2 g bb's. Ill refer to these guns as the high velocity gun and the low velocity gun respectively.

For the first test I shot the glasses with a single BB Bastartd Silica BB, 5cm from the muzzle of the high velocity AEG to the front of the glasses.


The Silica BB left a noticable dent that you can feel on the backside of the glasses and some tiny radial stress fractures that could be seen when you held it up to the light.

Next I shot it with a BB Bastard .28g Styrene BB, again 5cm between the high velocity AEG muzzle and the glasses.

The Styrene bb left a slight dent which you can feel on the backside of the glasses and the same radial stress fractures that were visible when held up to the light.

The comparison between the 2 impacts yielded that the Silica BB left a much more noticible dent, but they both left the same size of stress fractures. Again these stress fractures are invisible unless you hold the glasses up to a really bright light, in my case a halogen light. Makes me want to check out my other eyewear to see if the myriad of strikes that they have experienced, have cause any 'invisible' damage.

Next up, I shot the glasses an additional 9 times with Silica and Styrene to each of their respective sides as close to the initial impact area as I could.

This is the result of 10 Silica BB's shot by the high velocity AEG at a distance of 5cm.

Left a pretty cool 8mm across bulbous dent in the glasses with some tiny radial stress fractures on the periphery. The dent can be felt from the inside of the glasses, and although it's pretty hard to judge how deep , I'd say maybe .5-1mm deep. Sorry that it's not really in focus.

This is the result of 10 Styrene BB's shot by the high velocity AEG at a distance of 5cm.

Again, the denting was not as significant, but the stress fractures were much more prominent. This may be because the dents masked some of the stress fractures from the Silica strikes.

Next up, I took a stock 295fps gun, low velocity gun, and did the same 10 shot test at point blank range.

This is the result of 10 Silica BB's shot by the low velocity gun from a distance of 5cm. (the group on the left) These are almost un-noticable to the naked eye except for a few scratches and you cannot feel any dents at all with your finger. Looks worse in the picture.


The impacts to the right are the result of 10 Styrene BB's from the low velocity gun at a distance of 5cm. These are as well almost un noticable to the naked eye, even less scratching that the silicas. You cannot feel any dents with your finger.

Same ammo again, zoomed in a bit more. Again, it's very hard to see these stress fractures unless you have a good light source. They are pretty much invisible in normal light.


In both cases of BB type, I was pretty suprized to see similar stress fractures to the glasses from hits from both the high and low velocity guns. Although there were stress fractures and visible denting in both cases, multiple hits ( especially in the case of the 10 Silicas that were grouped much closer than the styrene ), did not seem to degrade the effectiveness of the eyewear even at the outside of playable FPS and in almost the exact spot after 10 shots at point blank range.

I also did some shatter testing on the bb's as well. I recovered all of the bb's that I shot at the glasses and out of 20 Silica BB's, none broke after striking the eyewear. Out of 20 Styrene BB's, 5 of them shattered after striking the eyewear when using the high velocity gun. I then took a towel to encircle the end of my gun and shot 20 Silica BB's at point blank into my cement floor in my basement. I recovered all of the BB's and not one shattered. I didn't shoot any Styrene at the floor as they broke on the glasses and most assuredly would break on the floor.

Aftermath of testing BB's.


I was suprised that the Silica bb's showed minimal scarring from being shot into the concrete.


My final thoughts are that these are ridiculously robust bb's. I can see these causing issues with nozzels if your gun chops the occasional BB. These will never get chopped, so the energy will be absorbed by your mechbox parts not this BB. I see the real win with these being with bolt action and DMR shooters. Roles where shooting is more deliberate and requires consistancy. Obviously, this testing takes only one manufacturer's eyewear into account, but from this round of testing I feel confident about using these on the field strictly from an eyewear safety issue. If they dont shatter or puncture approved eyewear after 10 shots from an almost 500fps gun at point blank range, they get my vote as being safe.

As far as people being concerned that they will shoot everyone's teeth out, well, as a person that has had one tooth shot out and another cracked and the bb shattered and embedded in his lips I say that's nothing new. I have the option of wearing mouth protection, but I usually choose not to knowing full well that it may cost me another $1000. People have had their teeth shot out by stock guns... govern yourselves accordingly.

[coach]

great test results there Jay.

I agree with the mouth guards though, if one fears that they will lose some teeth, they should take the proper precautions prior to hitting the field.

I've played against people with the silica's and really had no issues. though, I would probably prefer to know they are out there before a game starts. field owners and hosts still should have the final say if they are to be allowed or not.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by coachster

field owners and hosts still should have the final say if they are to be allowed or not.

Agreed, and I extend that to all rules, ammunition, velocities, player conduct, etc.

[Kos-Mos]

I have yet to try the BBB Silicas, but I look forward to it.

I happen to win a bag of BioMAX .27s in the contest here a little while ago.

I am at about half the bag. I have used them at an indoor CQB field with a 345 fps rifle. The players there where aware that I was using glass BBs, and some complained.

I shot a lot of people that night. Every single one of them, I went to ask if the hit was more painfull than usual. I have not received any complain about the glass BBs. Except that they could not see them arrive like the regular white ones...

I have an ICS semi-clear receiver here somewhere, that will die for the cause when I buy the BBB Silicas. Also have a set of Bolle T-800 that never got hit close range that will also die for the cause.

I have some BBB .28s, Armist .28s, BioMAX .27s, BBB .25s, Metaltech .25s and KSC .25s to test and see the results.

I intent to do a full test, with photography after each shot and document the issue once and for all.

[Freedom Fighter]

Originally Posted by Sportco

Can you imagine getting one in the teeth!!!

Lad, the old cheap BB's from a number of years ago not only shattered my teeth, but teeth of a couple team mates aswell. You don't want to take a shot from any BB on the pearly whites, because if you do, they will most likely not be there afterwards.

[Scarecrow]

Thought you guys might find this interesting.




LI-900 is 99.9% silica and is what space shuttle reentry tiles are made of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LI-900

[SpikedGhost]

Originally Posted by Kid

What about damage to inner barrels? Since these are a lot harder than regular BBs, would they be prone to cause damage to our tightbores? (Especially soft metal, coated bores, and/or dirty barrels?)

I spoke to someone that works a lot with metal and he told me that on some scale (depending on the surface) any kind of friction between glass and metal will put some "wear" on the metal since glass is harder than most metals. Also some grinding discs (for metal) are made with glass powder. I might be wrong, but I think after continuous use, they will degrade your tightbore much faster than normal BBBs. I was bummed out when I heard this since I was really looking forward to using them. Again I might be wrong about this and a lot more research on this subject should be done.