The Mill in Quebec running down

[LUTNIT]

The Mill in Quebec has been in use for three or four years now, I think its entering its fourth year in service or something like that. When I first started playing there the facility looked like it was a decommissioned factory of some sort with some offices that hadn't been used for a while. Being there this year just yesterday for Testtubes 5 man squad challenge game made me a little worried. The game was really fun but what made me worry was how much the building has fallen apart over the years.

I am not referring to people breaking things or damage from games, I am referring to the building as a whole falling apart. I really started to notice sagging and cracked ceilings, massive heaving in the floor, ice and water damage everywhere, shifting walls that jam doors that used to work in the open position, slanted floors, rotting wood visible through cracks in the flooring material, and a pile of other things that didn't look good. When I was there last fall the building as a whole was looking lightly damaged but still more or less safe. This spring it looks a whole hell of a lot worse off internally with what seem to my very limited experience like possible grosse structural damage.

I know the building can have a solid structure and still have some parts falling apart internally but there seems to be some real major structural damage from the building not being maintained and from rain and snow melt water coming in every spring, refreezing, then rethawing. I was just wondering how much longer the building will be able to be used without the worry about vents/pipes falling down during games, ankle breaking holes forming in the floor, or sections of the floor dropping or collapsing in some places. Are there any engineers, house framers, carpenters, renovators, or anyone else with experience in this who have played there recently who can shine some light on how superficial or serious the visible damage is? I do enjoy playing there still after several years of gaming there and am just worried if it might be lost to us in a couple or few more years.

[Ronan]

Shouldn't this be PM to the owner?

[HaZarD SFD]

In all honesty it should be on here as no one has mentioned anything about this issue at all and I completely agree 100% with what karl has said.. I have been there and would of gone again but this issue was one of the deciding factors of me not going to the game.

[LUTNIT]

Originally Posted by Ronan

Shouldn't this be PM to the owner?

I'm not sure the owner is on ASC or not, I've never seen a post from someone claiming to be the owner in any of the game threads. I was just looking for other airsofters opinions on the matter as I am far from an expert in anything structural or architectural.

I mean the house my apartment is in has warped walls, slanted floors, and other problems but it was inspected before I moved in and passed with flying colours. I was more concerned with the Mill because the damage there wasn't from the building being 103 years old like this house but from what seems like water and cold damage. As it stands we sign a waiver so if we get hurt the owner is not at fault but I am wondering about it from a safety point of view. The air ducts for example even in the first year had paint peeling off of them which is no problem but now some of them aren't even straight I'm guessing because the ceiling is warping (as the cables holding them up still look intact and secure.)

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by HaZarD SFD

In all honesty it should be on here as no one has mentioned anything about this issue at all and I completely agree 100% with what karl has said.. I have been there and would of gone again but this issue was one of the deciding factors of me not going to the game.

Agree it's an issue, but isn't he asking about the structural condition of the building? Something best asked the owner.

But yes, this thread does raise some security question that can only really be answered in one way: If you aren't satisfied for your well being, then don't go.

If this gets brought to any higher levels it will probably end up with the Mill being closed down to us. Which raises a fine question, when is it to late to play? What happens if we play and X thing happens and results in a serious injury or even death?

[LUTNIT]

As it was, running and stomping around didn't cause the floor to bow or warp or anything, and leaning really hard into walls doesn't make them warp or flex that I could feel, but there are definitely areas that look a lot worse for wear compared to even last fall. Nothing happened this time and compared to previous years all thats really different is a couple areas on the 3rd floor where you can trip because the floorboards are buckling, otherwise it doesn't seem any more or less dangerous than before. Most of the damage I'm talking about is the slow gradual sagging of walls, floors, and ceilings that used to be flat and level 2 years ago.

Its just that at the rate its degrading which seems fairly rapid, does anyone think we might not be able to safely host games there in say 2-3 years?

[testtube]

I will pass ypur concerns to the owner for sure.

[FOX_111]

The floor wood slates are buckling for the 3rd year now. It's because of the wather accumulation and high humidity mixed with the super cold air...

What has gone worst and is potentially more dangerous to us in a shorter time, is the water accumulation. All the floors are now heavily damaged by water (that is curently frozen). All that water mixed in the wood and isolant WILL cause "moisisures". How do you say that in english... mildew? Whatever. That is harmfull.

Another thing that anoy me, is the pigeon shit all over certain erea. That, mixed in the airbord dust, is highly toxic.

I know the owner is trying to patch things up as he can, but he can't do the whole building.

IMO, we should re-evaluate the building on our own each time we play there and report in a stickyed thread in the Quebec game section, evolving change in structure damage. That way, we can keep track of what's going on. I think it should also be very usefull to have the building officially inspectec before we play there after meltdown. Because when all that frozen water will melt, there is no telling what damage will apear.

[testtube]

I have forwarded your concernes to the building owner in an e-mail and will let you know what his respons is.

[testtube]

Hius answer.


Hey Jean,

I'm presently wayting for the reply of a study made by a consulting firm for the Cld the mrc and the city as well as myself and we will have the result of this study shortly

This will help me decide on the future of the project , you were talking about shifting floors and heaving , where did you notice this ,,,is that the wood on the 2 nd and 3 rd floor?

[Capt.Flan]

Maybe its time to call a specialist and make him check the building.
At 40 guys I guess 10$ each and we can afford a decent inspection.

Now if the city makes the inspection that can take a long time and will probably not be very accurate. And like Fox said this need to be done after winter when ice melts.

I actually work in construction now and I should be able to find the appropriate personnel if needed.

[Kesslan]

To be honest, dispite having been there only twice, once early winter and then at the last game, I still noticed well.. alot more issues than last time. I mean some places had litteral buckets of water pouring down through the ceiling, never a good sign to say the least, and the ground floor was slick as hell with ice all over the place.

On the whole I dont mind having to sign a waiver and all, but I do share many of the same concerns for the long term viability of the building.

[Jixton]

Airsoft fields and buildings, they come and they go.

It's been since the begining of 2006 that we started playing there on private games. I have good memories from that place. But that building will close, fall down or become unplayable.

We should all start to look for other places to play inside before we are left with no CQB facility.

[SurplusIG]

we need to install a heating system in that building :P

[Jixton]

Originally Posted by SurplusIG

we need to install a heating system in that building :P

Do you realise the cost of heating that Huge building? Plus the isolation is pretty poor.