Which bolt action sniper rifle should I purchase?

[ArcticFox1984]

Looking for some opinions here, I've decided to buy a bolt action spring rifle but can't decide which.

I am looking at a decision between the following two:

AGM/JG MP001 A.K.A. Swiss Arms SA1 Sniper - Black

or

UTG Bolt Action Sniper Rifle V.2 Deluxe- Black

Because the SA1 is a clone of the Mauri VSR 10 I was thinking it should have better upgradability.

Anyway, I need some advice here...

Thanks!

[Greylocks]

You should read the reviews, get age-verified, contact local players and go see guns in person.

Study what airsoft sniping is all about before you invest.

Then you should make up your own mind and be sure to not buy crap. Nobody can decide for you.

So start following the process, it's all spelled out in the FAQ and Newbie Guide.

[MestHead]

I have the UTG one and its not a crappy spring like the Super9. I'm very satisfied with it.

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by ArcticFox1984

Anyway, I need some advice here...

Thanks!

My advice is that you save your money and buy a better gun. You're basically comparing cheap piece of crap "A" to cheap piece of crap "B". In the end, their still both crap, any way you slice it. It's like comparing a Lada to a Kia - they're both shit, regardless of price.

You will have to invest a couple of hundred dollars to make it skirmish-worthy and give you an advantage, or else you're going to get hammered by folks with only mildly-upgraded AEG's who's rate of fire is 20 rounds to your 1.

Buy a gun that you can use with minimal upgrades out of the box - APS2, VSR10, or KJW M700. You can find them in the buy + sell on this forum for around $350-500 used, sometimes mildly upgraded. You'll spend that amount on upgrading either of those other guns.

[ArcticFox1984]

Thanks Mesthead!

The reviews I've read on that rifle were great, as were the reviews for the SA-1 so I wasnt sure what to go with, in the end I decided to go with the SA-1.

Thanks for your input greylocks and skruface, I will go about becoming age verified when I get time.

Just a quick note... I am not a "newbie" I have been playing airsoft for nearly 7 years and own a highly upgraded TM AUG which I am less then enthusiastic about using it in rain or snow, what im looking for here is something that I can mess around and have fun with without needing to worry about breaking, I guess I should have been more clear in my first post ever lol, my mistake.

I am curious as to why skruface thinks these guns are such garbage, do you actually have experience with these models or companies or are you just looking at the price-tag and assuming they are junk? It is my experience that expensive airsoft guns wear their cost on the externals not the internals... im a bit confused as to why you would assume that a gun that can outshoot the TM VSR 10 out of the box is somehow substandard.

China can make them cheaper... it doesnt have anything to do with quality its about inexpensive labour and better infrastructure for industrial manufacturing.

Unless you know something I don't?

Anywho, thanks for the responses!

[Mysteryfish]

There are plenty of reasons the quality isn't going to be the same.

For starters, the cost is definitely not all on the externals. The internals in most of the "chinasoft" guns aren't up to the standard set by companies like Tokyo Marui, especially in terms of consistency.

As for "outshooting" the Marui VSR-10, it's a pretty subjective statement. Power isn't everything. Raw velocity isn't fun if your BB's fly haywire, or if you only get half the life-span out of the gun. Generally speaking...

That cliche "you get what you pay for" exists for a reason.

Granted, we pay more in Canada for airsoft than it's really worth, but it's all relative, and the relatively cheap ones are (as a rule) relatively not as good.

You could get the best copy ever. It could be twice as good as the Marui.

But you probably stand a greater chance of getting a lemon with the "copycat" companies than you do with the more expensive companies.

Put it this way. A Tokyo Marui VSR-10 rarely has a problem out of the box that isn't caused by the person who bought it.

Where you'll save money buying a copy, it's way more likely than a Marui that a sear will fracture, or some flaw in the trigger mechanism causes it to wobble and then it breaks because the casting was garbage. Or what have you. When you copy something, you aren't going to be able to make it the same as the original, without duplicating everything from the original plans.

Chances are, the china-soft companies don't run the same shop as Marui at a fraction of the price. That's not usually how it works.

The logic is that you can take the risk, and spend less money but probably wind up paying the same value in TIME that you'd save by just buying the good ones. Personally, I hate waiting to get something fixed that I could have avoided in the first place.

Some people don't mind though.

[ArcticFox1984]

Thanks for your reply MysteryFish,

I understand the chances of factory defects may be slightly increased and that the machine shops and quality assurance isn't the same when purchasing from some budget airsoft companies.

I also understand that some chinese airsoft companies have been trying very hard to improve their products and have read nothing but excellent reviews on the two above mentioned models.

The fact of the matter is that Airsoft in general is overpriced, not just japanese manufactures and Canadian retailers.

Real guns don't cost as much as airsoft guns in some cases which makes no sense to me, but whatever...

In any case, I understand the concern and thank you for the warning. but I also understand that it is crazy to think that someone couldn't make a decent airsoft gun that doesn't cost more then 200 dollars and am more then willing to take the risk when the alternative is a replica that costs 200% more then the real firearm.

[Uziguy]

I think the reason that most people always say "you get what you pay for" and other over used expressions is because they got stuck spending $800 on a gun which can now be had for $300.

It has been widely talked about in many reviews and discussed all over Arnies, that the new Chinese guns coming out are in some cases better than the originals that there copying. It actually makes sense if you think about it;

Tokyo Marui makes gun
Small flaws/in-efficiencies are found over long term use
Chinese company copies gun and improves on original design

And like you stated before with Chinas cheap labour and a vast infrastructure well suited to produce airsoft guns, these "knock-offs" are lower priced and in some cases better quality.

In the end I think that the Chinese guns are a way better value for the money.

And just to claify I have both Chinese and Japanese guns in my arsenal.

[Mysteryfish]

Fair enough. I just figured it would be worth adding a perspective. I usually get more out of these threads than I put in.

I should add that my experience with both known companies and cheaper knock-offs has led me to believe what I wrote is true, but I have no experience with these newer releases.

I was tempted to buy the VSR-10 clone just to see how it fared, but I haven't bothered to try it yet, because I get super pissed when I have something I can't fix right away, and I have no way of knowing if it's a stand-up item without spending the money and time.

So, I'm biased by impatience and comfortable in staying with what I know, but I recognize both sides of the argument for sure.

While we're at it, does anybody know if that VSR clone is ACTUALLY a VSR clone? (In terms of TM parts compatibility)

[bean]

I hear the parts are compatible. If the Canadian retailers didn't charge me my first born form some thing that can be gotten so cheaply in the states I would compare. I know the insides and outsides along with upgrades for a vsr like no one.

[CDN_Stalker]

I'll suggest you dig around on here:

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums....php?board=8.0

and maybe even sign up and ask some questions. Airsoft Retreat is a very large forum in the US, and there are literally hundreds of airsoft snipers there, both noobs and vets, and they have a lot more to say about those brands you posted than anyone on here has experience with.

[ArcticFox1984]

From what I understand it is an exact TM VSR clone and will accept the parts and upgrades without modification.

I have ordered one from www.buyairsoft.ca for 216 dollars with tax and shipping, once I have time to try it out I can let you know for sure.

[Greylocks]

It would have been a better idea for you to wait and go see a game or two first. Then you could have tried the guns AND get age-verified before spending any major money.

Right now, you will get a gun. But... what will you compare it to if you have never shot anything else? Do you have a good setup to test the velocity or will you guess?
How can you let us know anything when you cant compare?

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by ArcticFox1984

I am curious as to why skruface thinks these guns are such garbage, do you actually have experience with these models or companies or are you just looking at the price-tag and assuming they are junk? It is my experience that expensive airsoft guns wear their cost on the externals not the internals... im a bit confused as to why you would assume that a gun that can outshoot the TM VSR 10 out of the box is somehow substandard.

I've owned plenty enough chinasoft to know not to waste my money if you're looking for on-field gaming performance. I've gamed with the aforementioned Super Duper 9 v.2 and owned an HFC USR-11, which is an exact Taiwanese clone of the TM VSR10. Both required at least $250 to make them effectively skirmishable (new barrel, hopup assembly, spring, sears) although for the price they make a nice display piece or gun to tear down and mess around with. For a gaming gun? I'd have been better off buying quality the first time.

I finally ponied up and bought a Tanaka M700 AICS, and I'll never look back at cheap-ass garbage. I'll put my bone stock AICS against your bone stock chinese clone any day of the week. It'd be like you bringing a LADA to a NASCAR race.

[ArcticFox1984]

I am a little confused about why this age verification is so important, it's not like im trying to buy a gun from anyone so whats the big deal?

I work alot and don't have time to show my ID to some guy I've never met before so a bunch of people on an airsoft forum know what age I am, it doesn't realy seem like a priority.

As for going to games and trying guns, I've done that many times in my seven years of playing airsoft and have a very good idea of what to expect from certain companies like KG, who I believe will be entering into direct competition with Tokyo Mauri for the mid/high end airsoft market very soon. ( they have already honestly. )

I would suggest trying to get your hands on their new clone of the G-36 and try it out... you'de never know it was only a few hundred dollars unless someone told you.