ASCA - Sale of final AEG stock

Pip · March 2nd, 2007, 14:32

Well i'm not saying that the senior members are doing nothing, i'm sure they are taking action, but in my experience its only after an event that things start to happen. Do we as a community really want to let it get to that stage? It would work two fold i think if who is doing what was posted up somewhere, not only would it give other members a chance to chime in and offer any help they might have, and also it would calm some people down, we wouldn't have all this nonsense about "No ones doing anything! ahhhh!", just food for thought.

Hey, if the shit hits the fan i'm moving back to the UK or down South....

KaOz · March 2nd, 2007, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pip

Well i'm not saying that the senior members are doing nothing, i'm sure they are taking action, but in my experience its only after an event that things start to happen. Do we as a community really want to let it get to that stage? It would work two fold i think if who is doing what was posted up somewhere, not only would it give other members a chance to chime in and offer any help they might have, and also it would calm some people down, we wouldn't have all this nonsense about "No ones doing anything! ahhhh!", just food for thought.

Hey, if the shit hits the fan i'm moving back to the UK or down South....

No... not down south... I'm here and well, moving up north!

If shit hits the fan, I'm going to Australia or back to Japan! =)

Cheers,
KaOz.

Trader rating · March 2nd, 2007, 14:43

Maby we could do a dance number in the meantime? Like we all sign and dance like from Grease or something. We could have awesome camera angles and maby some fireworks. We just need a way to rhyme "airsoft" into a fancy logo.
If we really wanted to, we could all wear tear-away pants and rip them off at the same time to reveal speedos...it could turn into some kind of Full Monty thing.
Remember the south park episode 806 "Goobacks"? where people from the future came to our time to make money...and to solve the problem, all the men got on that big mansex pile and started having sex...maby that would work in our situation....
Worse comes to worse, we could all just shit bricks and build a giant wall so the police couldnt take our guns.

Alternatives rock.

Mapcinq · March 2nd, 2007, 14:49

"Back to the pile!"

Stan · March 2nd, 2007, 15:32

Things aint looking good my friends but we must all stay positive and united. It is getting more and more difficult to import and purchase airsoft guns so I suggest you keep every airsoft gun you have now.

I highly doubt the government would regulate airsoft guns the same way it does with firearms (PAL) however if that is the only way they will allow it I'm sure most people would have no problem abiding to it. I think it is a good idea and it definately puts alot more responsibility and accountability on the ownership of airsoft guns, I just don't think the government would sanction such a thing, especially with how over-budget the firearms registration system got and how ignorant and bias our government has been in the past to present day.

Not only is the future of our sport threatended, even real steel firearms owners are facing the very same problem, the government is already discussing and planning to ban all firearms in general. Sigh... only time will tell but I really wish there was something we could do, we've signed petitions, called our MP's, you name it, we've tried it, but the result always seems to be the same, it goes no where.

frankiet · March 2nd, 2007, 15:43

It seems that this thread has gotten off topic from the original subject, so hell, why not?

Is the sky falling yet? If so, why all the sudden is the sky falling? The last major thread devoted to "airsoft paranoia" was

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...t=trouble+west

I would like to point out that the thread was graciously deposited into the Trash Disposal, contrary to several requests to actually have it Stickied. Apparently the higher ups, who we are now counting on to save our beloved hobby didn't agree with it's direction and thought it was better to bury it. Several people, most notably HoJo, and Brian M, both of whom I have the utmost respect for, both believed that the sky WAS NOT falling. What is the difference between the guys out West getting shut down and somebody in Markham? NOTHING. Now all the sudden, because of a coinciding announcement that ASCA was not importing, we run around begging for direction from the very people that ignored the warning signs.

Petitions aren't going to help. Getting the boys together to have another late night study session to write a letter isn't going to be any different than the last one. It seems the people who get together to write this up are the ones eager to make money off it. The only solution lies in the CCC. There is room for interpretation. Even the Firearms Act leaves wiggle room. They define the AEGs on a case by case basis. Although the RCMP refuse to put it in writing for me, in a phone conversation with the person behind the forensic testing I was told that anything above their threshold (about 335 fps), is not a replica, and therefore good to go. Why have the airsoft community refused to exploit this? I have been struggling to get this in writing, but to no avail. Why would they? I have written several letters, and not a single one has been replied to. That would open the floodgates. Even a Customs technician told me (again, they refuse to send me anything in writing), they would allow anything in that was deemed not to be a replica by the RCMP. In other words, 335 fps. Problem is, without anything in writing, we are taking huge risks. We are being either ignored, or prosecuted.

Perhaps we should redirect some energy towards this. The trashed thread has some valuable information that may warrant a second look.

Oh, and back to my original question... IS THE SKY FALLING YET?!?

Daes · March 2nd, 2007, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaOz

No... not down south... I'm here and well, moving up north!

If shit hits the fan, I'm going to Australia or back to Japan! =)

Cheers,
KaOz.

And if you had done your reading on Airsoft laws and legalities around the world in this great quest for saving Canada, you would know that Airsoft in Australia is ILLEGAL. People are doing work on this that KNOW what they are doing, they bother to read and research. You need to stop mouthing off and start looking at the situation beyond face value. Talk is cheap... Do some research and give us something other then idle chatter and quick "solutions".

Stan · March 2nd, 2007, 15:55

the 335 fps thing has been argued to death for years, Peter Kang of APEC (Xtreme Precision) the first guy to import airsoft guns into Canada since 1994 has been battling the government for years using that argument. In the end, if the government wants to ban something, there isn't any way you can stop them. We've talked to the chief firearms officer, MP's, government officials, RCMP. It seems like no matter who you talk to, nothing ever happens. We've even shot a cow's eye and done ballistic testing to show that airsoft guns can indeed cause "bodily harm" and still to no avail. Even if we kill a cow in front of their face with an airsoft gun they'll still say it does not cause bodily harm. I guess they want us to upgrade our airsoft guns so powerful till we kill each other to be exempt from the replica classification!

As more firearms related crimes happen in our country, you'll start to see more action taken by the government and law enforcement to crack down on things like airsoft guns and paintball guns.

It really pisses me off that our government seems so clueless and ignorant in regulating guns in our country. Its gotten to the point where they are just saying "ban em all, real or fake, no guns period". Sometimes I really wonder who these people are and how the hell did they become politicians.

spacemoose · March 2nd, 2007, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droc

Maby we could do a dance number in the meantime? Like we all sign and dance like from Grease or something.

Ok, lets all remove our hats. Dance if you want too.

KaOz · March 2nd, 2007, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daes

And if you had done your reading on Airsoft laws and legalities around the world in this great quest for saving Canada, you would know that Airsoft in Australia is ILLEGAL. People are doing work on this that KNOW what they are doing, they bother to read and research. You need to stop mouthing off and start looking at the situation beyond face value. Talk is cheap... Do some research and give us something other then idle chatter and quick "solutions".

First of all - when I stated that I would move to Australia or Japan it would not be for airsoft... don't assume. It it would be for the legendary RHD vehicles that I admire so much and are very affordable amongst the modifications for them.

Secondly, you are very brave to start an argument esp. after many posts have been stating NOT TO DO SO over this particular issue.

You act so tough defending these people - LIST THEM. Who and What are they doing? I have yet to see anyone of "these people" post something in regards to what is being done currently. The past is the past - let's move on and find a solution for now.

I need to stop mouthing off?... How about the fact that I have started an online petition that is now being signed by fellow Quebec airsofters as well as some retail owners? How about the fact that I AM BEING PRO-ACTIVE rather than mouthing off as you say... Unlike you who just pissed in my coffee posting these direct insults to me.

As for doing research, how about the fact that I have spent nearly 16 hours now doing much research and making contacts including fellow family friends both in the provincial (Ontario) and federal levels of government for their advise on the situation. Unlike you, I haven't been just talking the talk, I have been walking too... have some respect.Give me one week and you will see something major that I have done (as I idle here so much - hah)... so don't come bitching at me once the news slaps you across the face.

Think twice as much as you speak/write and you might actually have something worthwhile to

Cheers,
KaOz.

thephenom · March 2nd, 2007, 16:01

The only thing I have against PAL, at at least seeing the problem with PAL. Once they regular airsoft under PAL, it opens a new backdoor and somewhat of a precedent to own real steel replicas.

I'm not sure of the law on actual replicas (not airsoft), except for 1998 law, where you can't buy replicas after 1998.

spacemoose · March 2nd, 2007, 16:02

Daes · March 2nd, 2007, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaOz

First of all - when I stated that I would move to Australia or Japan it would not be for airsoft... don't assume. It it would be for the legendary RHD vehicles that I admire so much and are very affordable amongst the modifications for them.

Secondly, you are very brave to start an argument esp. after many posts have been stating NOT TO DO SO over this particular issue.

You act so tough defending these people - LIST THEM. Who and What are they doing? I have yet to see anyone of "these people" post something in regards to what is being done currently. The past is the past - let's move on and find a solution for now.

I need to stop mouthing off?... How about the fact that I have started an online petition that is now being signed by fellow Quebec airsofters as well as some retail owners? How about the fact that I AM BEING PRO-ACTIVE rather than mouthing off as you say... Unlike you who just pissed in my coffee posting these direct insults to me.

As for doing research, how about the fact that I have spent nearly 16 hours now doing much research and making contacts including fellow family friends both in the provincial (Ontario) and federal levels of government for their advise on the situation. Unlike you, I haven't been just talking the talk, I have been walking too... have some respect.Give me one week and you will see something major that I have done (as I idle here so much - hah)... so don't come bitching at me once the news slaps you across the face.

Think twice as much as you speak/write and you might actually have something worthwhile to

Cheers,
KaOz.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=9748
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=550
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=1289
http://www.xringairsoft.com/news/2398.html

Please read.

I look forward to seeing what you have in a week.

frankiet · March 2nd, 2007, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan

We've even shot a cow's eye and done ballistic testing to show that airsoft guns can indeed cause "bodily harm" and still to no avail. Even if we kill a cow in front of their face with an airsoft gun they'll still say it does not cause bodily harm.

I would be honoured if I could see the data from that. Where can I get some of that? No seriously, can somebody mail it to me!

lt_poncho · March 2nd, 2007, 16:34

One thing history has taught me is that it's been absolutely fruitless to discuss things on a discussion board that require input, collaboration and action. Unless ASC is going to become a SharePoint Server...

If you are really serious about doing things the right way, then you'll use the right methodology.

If you want to do this right you will need the following;

1. Committed action members who will project manage the entire process of gathering required information
2. A signed off strategy of what is to be achieved
3. Subject matter experts
4. Funds for subject matter experts
5. An understanding and acceptance of any resolution based on the outcome

Honestly - thread after thread of this topic does not amount to the one-ply that the warehouse stalls use. There's a maturity scale to all of this - perhaps maybe the reason why you DON'T see 'senior' members of community posting here.

I guess i'll call Hojo seeing how I am pretty sure I won't get an answer to what's left in stock now that this is +10 pages.

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March 2nd, 2007, 15:32	#125
Stan Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver, B.C.	Things aint looking good my friends but we must all stay positive and united. It is getting more and more difficult to import and purchase airsoft guns so I suggest you keep every airsoft gun you have now. I highly doubt the government would regulate airsoft guns the same way it does with firearms (PAL) however if that is the only way they will allow it I'm sure most people would have no problem abiding to it. I think it is a good idea and it definately puts alot more responsibility and accountability on the ownership of airsoft guns, I just don't think the government would sanction such a thing, especially with how over-budget the firearms registration system got and how ignorant and bias our government has been in the past to present day. Not only is the future of our sport threatended, even real steel firearms owners are facing the very same problem, the government is already discussing and planning to ban all firearms in general. Sigh... only time will tell but I really wish there was something we could do, we've signed petitions, called our MP's, you name it, we've tried it, but the result always seems to be the same, it goes no where. __________________ Stan - MILSIG Armament \| www.milsig.ca \| stan@milsig.ca 3779 Sexsmith Rd. #1106, Richmond, B.C. V6X 3Z9 \| T: 604-278-6566

March 2nd, 2007, 15:55	#128
Stan Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver, B.C.	the 335 fps thing has been argued to death for years, Peter Kang of APEC (Xtreme Precision) the first guy to import airsoft guns into Canada since 1994 has been battling the government for years using that argument. In the end, if the government wants to ban something, there isn't any way you can stop them. We've talked to the chief firearms officer, MP's, government officials, RCMP. It seems like no matter who you talk to, nothing ever happens. We've even shot a cow's eye and done ballistic testing to show that airsoft guns can indeed cause "bodily harm" and still to no avail. Even if we kill a cow in front of their face with an airsoft gun they'll still say it does not cause bodily harm. I guess they want us to upgrade our airsoft guns so powerful till we kill each other to be exempt from the replica classification! As more firearms related crimes happen in our country, you'll start to see more action taken by the government and law enforcement to crack down on things like airsoft guns and paintball guns. It really pisses me off that our government seems so clueless and ignorant in regulating guns in our country. Its gotten to the point where they are just saying "ban em all, real or fake, no guns period". Sometimes I really wonder who these people are and how the hell did they become politicians. __________________ Stan - MILSIG Armament \| www.milsig.ca \| stan@milsig.ca 3779 Sexsmith Rd. #1106, Richmond, B.C. V6X 3Z9 \| T: 604-278-6566 Last edited by Stan; March 2nd, 2007 at 16:00..

March 2nd, 2007, 16:02	#132
spacemoose Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2006	__________________

March 2nd, 2007, 14:43	#123
Droc Guest Trader rating	Maby we could do a dance number in the meantime? Like we all sign and dance like from Grease or something. We could have awesome camera angles and maby some fireworks. We just need a way to rhyme "airsoft" into a fancy logo. If we really wanted to, we could all wear tear-away pants and rip them off at the same time to reveal speedos...it could turn into some kind of Full Monty thing. Remember the south park episode 806 "Goobacks"? where people from the future came to our time to make money...and to solve the problem, all the men got on that big mansex pile and started having sex...maby that would work in our situation.... Worse comes to worse, we could all just shit bricks and build a giant wall so the police couldnt take our guns. Alternatives rock.

March 2nd, 2007, 14:49	#124
Mapcinq Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Markham, Ontario	"Back to the pile!"

March 2nd, 2007, 15:43	#126
frankiet Trader rating Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto	It seems that this thread has gotten off topic from the original subject, so hell, why not? Is the sky falling yet? If so, why all the sudden is the sky falling? The last major thread devoted to "airsoft paranoia" was http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...t=trouble+west I would like to point out that the thread was graciously deposited into the Trash Disposal, contrary to several requests to actually have it Stickied. Apparently the higher ups, who we are now counting on to save our beloved hobby didn't agree with it's direction and thought it was better to bury it. Several people, most notably HoJo, and Brian M, both of whom I have the utmost respect for, both believed that the sky WAS NOT falling. What is the difference between the guys out West getting shut down and somebody in Markham? NOTHING. Now all the sudden, because of a coinciding announcement that ASCA was not importing, we run around begging for direction from the very people that ignored the warning signs. Petitions aren't going to help. Getting the boys together to have another late night study session to write a letter isn't going to be any different than the last one. It seems the people who get together to write this up are the ones eager to make money off it. The only solution lies in the CCC. There is room for interpretation. Even the Firearms Act leaves wiggle room. They define the AEGs on a case by case basis. Although the RCMP refuse to put it in writing for me, in a phone conversation with the person behind the forensic testing I was told that anything above their threshold (about 335 fps), is not a replica, and therefore good to go. Why have the airsoft community refused to exploit this? I have been struggling to get this in writing, but to no avail. Why would they? I have written several letters, and not a single one has been replied to. That would open the floodgates. Even a Customs technician told me (again, they refuse to send me anything in writing), they would allow anything in that was deemed not to be a replica by the RCMP. In other words, 335 fps. Problem is, without anything in writing, we are taking huge risks. We are being either ignored, or prosecuted. Perhaps we should redirect some energy towards this. The trashed thread has some valuable information that may warrant a second look. Oh, and back to my original question... IS THE SKY FALLING YET?!?

March 2nd, 2007, 16:01	#131
thephenom Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto	The only thing I have against PAL, at at least seeing the problem with PAL. Once they regular airsoft under PAL, it opens a new backdoor and somewhat of a precedent to own real steel replicas. I'm not sure of the law on actual replicas (not airsoft), except for 1998 law, where you can't buy replicas after 1998.

March 2nd, 2007, 16:34	#135
lt_poncho Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: GTA	One thing history has taught me is that it's been absolutely fruitless to discuss things on a discussion board that require input, collaboration and action. Unless ASC is going to become a SharePoint Server... If you are really serious about doing things the right way, then you'll use the right methodology. If you want to do this right you will need the following; 1. Committed action members who will project manage the entire process of gathering required information 2. A signed off strategy of what is to be achieved 3. Subject matter experts 4. Funds for subject matter experts 5. An understanding and acceptance of any resolution based on the outcome Honestly - thread after thread of this topic does not amount to the one-ply that the warehouse stalls use. There's a maturity scale to all of this - perhaps maybe the reason why you DON'T see 'senior' members of community posting here. I guess i'll call Hojo seeing how I am pretty sure I won't get an answer to what's left in stock now that this is +10 pages.

ASCA - Sale of final AEG stock

General