City of Markham Ontario bans all replica firearm sales with new by-law 2012-196

[HackD]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

This sounds odd, but is there a way to get to the cops to ask them how we can help? They are obviously aware of ASC so perhaps there is a way of getting to them to ask what we can do?

When I opened our field, I called the cops twice and they were happy to hear we were proactive and updated the dispatch accordingly.

I am reaching here so the guys who want to take pot shots at an idea can piss off.

I would love to say that there is a way to help - but i'm pessimistic by nature, and i don't see a way - ASC isn't a governing body, and we can't even police our own membership effectively as far as under-age access goes (paid banner adverts viewable by all) or mature and appropriate display and handling of airsoft weapons go (Barrie Zombie walk a few years ago, people attending events with 'open-carry' of weapons, regardless of proximity of the general public come to mind). ASC is also not the be-all and end-all of the airsoft community, with facebook groups, game organizers hosting games with profit, rather than integrity in mind, and backyard 'airsoft wars' so prevalent amongst the under-aged and ignorant.

It's obvious that the police don't have the resources to deal with this, in terms of public education AND enforcement - in this case, they have gone to the Markham bylaw enforcement to enact a blanket ban instead to nip the problem at it's root source, the retailer.

We could be seeing the results of the rapid expansion of airsoft in a particular municipality, and the resultant implosion that occurs when something potentially hazardous to the public health gets too big, too fast.

Those that can keep it discrete and appropriate, will continue ordering the weapons online (if necessary) and playing at appropriate spots with minimal worry of a legal back-lash. Those that get nailed with the bylaw enforcement/increased police oversight, will be spending their money on fines and legal representation instead of buying more guns. Not necessarily a bad thing, when common sense has failed, with individuals guilty of bad judgement - youth or adult.

As far as retailers in potentially affected areas go, i'm afraid that it is the interests of the few, against the will of the many.

My opinion, take it as you will.

[Trev140_0]

Funny, I can still remember shitting my pants the very first day I got an airsoft gun.

Didn't have a gun bag so I put it in a lawn chair bag from Canadian tire; if I had to take if from my car to house/store etc.

So simple and yet so important. I guess it really is going to go the way it goes and the private scene will prevale in the end.

[TaroBear]

More importantly than the big picture stuff, does this include anyone living within Markham borderlines posting classified ads on ASC?

[Curo]

It looks broad enough to cover private sales. But I mean.... ASC isn't Markham technically and worst to worst meet somewhere outside Markham.

[HackD]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

Funny, I can still remember shitting my pants the very first day I got an airsoft gun.

Didn't have a gun bag so I put it in a lawn chair bag from Canadian tire; if I had to take if from my car to house/store etc.

So simple and yet so important. I guess it really is going to go the way it goes and the private scene will prevale in the end.

Yes, I also felt somewhat paranoid with the purchase of my first airsoft gun. A proper gun bag was my second purchase that was airsoft related. I dare say that i would be in the minority, when it comes to that protective purchase priority.

The commonality is that you and i, relatively speaking, are old and have a keener sense of public awareness and perception than average when it comes to anything that resembles a weapon.. replica or real steel. The younger set generally doesn't think these things through as much. Unfortunately, over-regulation results, and the School of Hard Knocks has to fill in, where common sense is absent.

Unfortunately, i think it's going to be a case of sitting back, and watching the resultant fall-out, and hoping that it doesn't filter down from the retailer level, to events being hosted by responsible organizers at appropriate locations.

The positive side, is this raises awareness here, and those who have money and time invested in this as a hobby or business, have a vested interest in things not being screwed up, in situations that they can control. Retailers may well have to go online sales only, if their municipality is affected.. or move to a friendlier business environment.

[Trev140_0]

Well, I just did my part and picked up a new VFC quake from Mach1. Might just stick it on a sheft and look at it.

I win.

ps---awesome service thanks again Rich.

[Swattiger]

Originally Posted by MASAKO

The city currently waste our tax money on something which is not necessary to do so, they should concentrate about the gang and violence crime than fake or replica firearm. I sometime hope, the gang war will use replica firearm than actual firearm itself. It took me more time, paper work and risk to acquire a replican firearm than getting a PAL and RPAL.

+1.

Once for a while, the Markham city government likes to show the public they have done something about fire arms control by screwing those small toys retailers at PM. I remember they raid one shop back in 2007. It went to the A1 page of newspapers.

You are absolute right that they are never so enthusatic about the real gangs and gun violence.

[Armyissue]

Plan an ASC Movember Shirtless CAR* wash in Markham. Full Tact gear no shirt.oYou'll get the Media and the Police at Once.
Raise cash for Assholes
and raise
Awareness of Asshole..... that ru(i)n the City

*CAR --- Carbine Automatic Rifle
(No really just automobiles)

POlice won't charge you with a Bylaw offence. You'll need byl-aw officers writing you tickets

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Armyissue

Plan an ASC Movember Shirtless CAR* wash in Markham. Full Tact gear no shirt.oYou'll get the Media and the Police at Once.
Raise cash for Assholes
and raise
Awareness of Asshole..... that ru(i)n the City

*CAR --- Carbine Automatic Rifle
(No really just automobiles)

POlice won't charge you with a Bylaw offence. You'll need byl-aw officers writing you tickets

lolwut?

But FYI, the bylaw empowers actual YRP officers with enforcement and unless you are advertising your gear for sale, then you will not be affected by the bylaw.

[GBBR]

Solution! Do not age verify markham police ! They will never be able to veiw our classifieds bawhahha!

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by mmmken

lolwut?

But FYI, the bylaw empowers actual YRP officers with enforcement and unless you are advertising your gear for sale, then you will not be affected by the bylaw.

Yeah I know that Vancouver Police have the ability to write people up for bylaw offenses (though they typically don't).

As for the bylaw in Markham.... AFAIK YRP is the police force for 5 different districts.... So if you go from Markham to a couple blocks away over to Richmond Hill will YRP still be able to write a bylaw ticket if you're retailing in Richmond Hill?

It seems like the easy work around is to just go a few blocks over to Richmond Hill, or Aurora, or Newmarket or whatever to do trades/sales.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

this bylaw is not for dealing with sales between individuals-- it's to stop retailers from setting up shop and to close down existing ones,

they want to stop the proliferation in commerce in realistic toy guns

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

this bylaw is not for dealing with sales between individuals-- it's to stop retailers from setting up shop and to close down existing ones,

they want to stop the proliferation in commerce in realistic toy guns

You're probably right about the intention, but the wording of the by-law encompasses all sales regardless of whether it is a business or an individual.

Originally Posted by L473ncy

Yeah I know that Vancouver Police have the ability to write people up for bylaw offenses (though they typically don't).

As for the bylaw in Markham.... AFAIK YRP is the police force for 5 different districts.... So if you go from Markham to a couple blocks away over to Richmond Hill will YRP still be able to write a bylaw ticket if you're retailing in Richmond Hill?

It seems like the easy work around is to just go a few blocks over to Richmond Hill, or Aurora, or Newmarket or whatever to do trades/sales.

Well, the reason why I said YRP has provisions to enforce this by-law is because it explicitly defined in the by-law. It is also defined in the by-law that it is contained in the City of Markham. They have no powers in relation to this by-law outside of Markham.

So yes, either you sell in a different city, or you sell it to be "used as a prop for Stage/Movie/Production".

[sushicake]

So all the guys inside pmall are getting screwed huh... They're borderline Toronto.

[SuperHog]

This proposed by-law targets all replicas, that would also included airsoft, pellet guns, paintball guns that are packaged in black assault styles (Crosman, RAP4, Tippmann 98, X7, etc).

So the stores affected is not just pmall, it would include all sporting stores, paintball stores, Walmart and Canadian Tire in Markham.