Optics Vs. Iron sights

[zzzzsleepy8]

Originally Posted by lurkingknight

provided that I don't forget to turn the damn thing off, my reflex sights don't need new batteries that often.

Those light sensitive auto on red dots are garbage though... they're ALWAYS on even when they're 'off'.

lol ya. Thats sort of the selling point I guess. Pick up and ready to go. As long as it doesn't give your position away.

Actually I've seen people put tape over their fiber optic on the fiber optic version of the ACOGs to 'turn it off' (the ones without the tritium secondary illumination anyway otherwise theres no way to turn those off lol).

[zzzzsleepy8]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

I just realized, since I have a mini RDS, I was trying to sight with one eye closed and the sight all the way back near the cheek rest. So i changed it up and moved my RDS near the very front of my gun and using both eyes to sight, and I have to say, this is so much easier than trying to use Irons. Now I am wondering if certain sights need to be in certain positions to work effectively, or is that just personal preference?

Personal preference. You don't need to run them all the way in the front. Some people do that. Maybe you get better viewing angles, but sometimes you want to mount things in front of your optic on the top rail that shouldn't be blocked by an optic, e.g. a laser designator. Your back up iron sights (BUIS) should run in the very front also.

I like to run my optics in the center region above the AR upper, near the seam to the hand guard rails. Thats where most people mount them.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by zzzzsleepy8

Personal preference. You don't need to run them all the way in the front. Some people do that. Maybe you get better viewing angles, but sometimes you want to mount things in front of your optic on the top rail that shouldn't be blocked by an optic, e.g. a laser designator. Your back up iron sights (BUIS) should run in the very front also.

I like to run my optics in the center region above the AR upper, near the seam to the hand guard rails. Thats where most people mount them.

Agreed, I line my ACOG to center with the lower receiver, it puts a small amount of distance between my eye and the lens which is perfect for me, I hate having the ACOG too close to my eye when sighting because it drastically cuts your peripheral vision and in turn, your situational awareness. I like to keep the RDS forward though because this way, it's much easier to quickly alternate between targets. I still need practice but I'm getting the hang of it, much faster than Iron Sights. As for the BUIS, my SCAR has stock folding sights which, when flipped up, stand higher than my doctor sight so they're good to go. Also, I do have a peq15 laser+light which I keep mounted on my right side rail, didn't like it mounted on my top rail so in terms of obstructions, there are none lol.

[zzzzsleepy8]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

Agreed, I line my ACOG to center with the lower receiver, it puts a small amount of distance between my eye and the lens which is perfect for me, I hate having the ACOG too close to my eye when sighting because it drastically cuts your peripheral vision and in turn, your situational awareness. I like to keep the RDS forward though because this way, it's much easier to quickly alternate between targets. I still need practice but I'm getting the hang of it, much faster than Iron Sights. As for the BUIS, my SCAR has stock folding sights which, when flipped up, stand higher than my doctor sight so they're good to go. Also, I do have a peq15 laser+light which I keep mounted on my right side rail, didn't like it mounted on my top rail so in terms of obstructions, there are none lol.

What trijcon do you have? Sounds like you have the RMR?

Maybe you should try the eotech then. Get the newer ones, the EXPS3 styled one designed for lower 1/3 cowitness. They are taller than most sights, which clears stuff you want to mount on the top rail in front of the topic easily. A peq box is easily cleared when using an EXPS3 sight.

I like peq boxes on the top rail. Keeps the rifle skinnier in profile, otherwise its too bulky on the sides.

[FirestormX]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

How about using an RDS with the front post sight up?

It usually doesn't hurt to have your front sight post up. If you've got both eyes open (so that the post doesn't reduce your visibility), and you're not running a magnified optic, then there shouldn't be much of a problem.

You just have to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the reticule itself. If your post is between the reticule and the target, then you won't be able to see where your shot will hit. You'll be able to imply it, of course, but because the post is obstructing the visibility of your point of impact, it may not be ideal.

Since you don't need to be ridiculously accurate in airsoft (and often, can't be, by nature of the BB), it's not a big deal.


On the topic of RDSes positioned forward on your gun: the primary reasoning for that is so that as you are bringing your gun to the ready position (eg, bringing it up to your shoulder, from your waist), you can begin to look for the red dot sooner. So if the RDS is all the way back on your receiver, you will need to almost shoulder the gun completely before the reticule will enter your field of vision. If it's further forward, then the reticule will enter your field of vision earlier, and you'll be able to visually track the reticule up to your target.

Your field of vision is like a cone. If you're facing right, your FOV will look like this: <
Now imagine you bringing your gun up. The front of your gun (all the way on the right) will enter your FOV before the rear of your gun.

Now, this shouldn't be too big of a deal, since you should be practicing your reactive shooting as well. You should be able to look at your target, bring your gun up to the ready position, and have your reticule stop on the target.
So rather than finding your reticule and using it to guide your gun to the target, you should be guiding your reticule to the target.

It's a subtle difference, but an important one in the way you train. Rather than practicing looking through your optic, and then maneuvering your gun so that your reticule is on target, you should practice bringing your reticule to where you're looking.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by zzzzsleepy8

What trijcon do you have? Sounds like you have the RMR?

Maybe you should try the eotech then. Get the newer ones, the EXPS3 styled one designed for lower 1/3 cowitness. They are taller than most sights, which clears stuff you want to mount on the top rail in front of the topic easily. A peq box is easily cleared when using an EXPS3 sight.

I like peq boxes on the top rail. Keeps the rifle skinnier in profile, otherwise its too bulky on the sides.

While the ACOG sight I have says it's a TA31 (RCO-A4), I searched online and mine does not look like a RS TA31. The RS TA31 has the red Fibre Optic on the top of the sight which illuminates the reticule, my clone model however has no illumination whatsoever. The one I have looks more like this, except black:

I purchased it from Toronto Airsoft, this is the link to the exact one I purchased: http://www.torontoairsoft.com/ACM-AC...ht_p_1072.html

Also in regards to the Peq box being on the side, my box (as I'm sure all do) has the "dummy fire switch" a button I can just press to turn it on, so if I don't use a grip I can quickly press it on and off. I do have a pressure switch that came with it but I don't however have a pressure switch mount/cover for the side rails so I cant mount it, unless I just tape it on or something...

@FirestormX, I agree with what you said. Keeping the sight closer to the rear of the gun does mean shouldering almost entirely before the dos is visible, however, like you mentioned near the end of your post, the key is bring your weapon up and have it aimed where your looking rather than trying to re-acquire a target you already have your eyes on.

[redzaku]

this model you have is the TA01NSN style, which the model has no illumination but on the real steel glows yellow at night, and that you can replace the back up iron with a RMR adapter, so you can attach a trijicon mini red dot sight

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by redzaku

this model you have is the TA01NSN style, which the model has no illumination but on the real steel glows yellow at night, and that you can replace the back up iron with a RMR adapter, so you can attach a trijicon mini red dot sight

Thank you for identifying what model it is for me, I could never pinpoint which exact model it was supposed to be a clone of, although mine does have a line on the top like the manufacturer was going to put a fiber optic on to it, but then decided not to. The front post sight on my FACOG is not straight and no matter how much I try it won't go straight, so that means the buis on the ACOG are useless. I'm not sure what an RMR adapter is but yes there is an adapter piece which lets me mount the mini RDS on to the top of the ACOG.

[zzzzsleepy8]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

While the ACOG sight I have says it's a TA31 (RCO-A4), I searched online and mine does not look like a RS TA31. The RS TA31 has the red Fibre Optic on the top of the sight which illuminates the reticule, my clone model however has no illumination whatsoever. The one I have looks more like this, except black:

I purchased it from Toronto Airsoft, this is the link to the exact one I purchased: http://www.torontoairsoft.com/ACM-AC...ht_p_1072.html

Also in regards to the Peq box being on the side, my box (as I'm sure all do) has the "dummy fire switch" a button I can just press to turn it on, so if I don't use a grip I can quickly press it on and off. I do have a pressure switch that came with it but I don't however have a pressure switch mount/cover for the side rails so I cant mount it, unless I just tape it on or something...

@FirestormX, I agree with what you said. Keeping the sight closer to the rear of the gun does mean shouldering almost entirely before the dos is visible, however, like you mentioned near the end of your post, the key is bring your weapon up and have it aimed where your looking rather than trying to re-acquire a target you already have your eyes on.

I see.

In your case, maybe you should be mounting it further back instead of so far forward. That scope allows you to look through the magnified scope for long distance and then look up through the red dot at close distance. having it so far forward in your rifle means the magnified optic becomes unusable.

You may want to consider investing in a standalone red dot also. The Aimpoints are simple and gets the job done, or the eotech etc. They have a bigger window than the RMR anyway so it helps even more.

You can velcro tape or use some wraps to wrap a pressure switch onto your vertical foregrip or rails. Or, you depending on how you hold your rifle, often you can click the button on the PEQ even if they are on top. For example look at this video of Travis Haley skipping to 3:40:

RUN A SCAR or MK16/17 like a BOSS! - YouTube


PEQ on top and thumb can still access buttons.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by zzzzsleepy8

I see.

In your case, maybe you should be mounting it further back instead of so far forward. That scope allows you to look through the magnified scope for long distance and then look up through the red dot at close distance. having it so far forward in your rifle means the magnified optic becomes unusable.

You may want to consider investing in a standalone red dot also. The Aimpoints are simple and gets the job done, or the eotech etc. They have a bigger window than the RMR anyway so it helps even more.

You can velcro tape or use some wraps to wrap a pressure switch onto your vertical foregrip or rails. Or, you depending on how you hold your rifle, often you can click the button on the PEQ even if they are on top. For example look at this video of Travis Haley skipping to 3:40:

RUN A SCAR or MK16/17 like a BOSS! - YouTube


PEQ on top and thumb can still access buttons.

Wow, definitely a very informative video. I knew about the charging handle issue and found my solution, however I hadn't considered the "jamming" situation (Double feeding). I had tried the Peq box on top with a C-Clamp grip using my thumb to manipulate the button, but in order to do so, I have to keep my support arm fairly extended, and since I am using a mini RDS, it obstructs the view of it. As for a standalone RDS, I want to get a proper one like a RS EoTech or Aimpoint or at least a decent airsoft clone, however the reality is that I can't afford one of these on my current financial situation. There is a similar thread here on ASC about the EoTech Hurricane and in it, a fellow mentioned a company called Sightmark. They look like EoTech clones sort of but as long as its reliable, I don't really care what it looks like. Has anybody here ever tried one of these? Also, I do keep my ACOG fairly back, but with just a small gap, not sure if any other guns have this but my rail has numbers printed in each of the grooves, so using those, I place the rear mounting knob of the sight on either the 8th or 9th groove. This centers it for me and keeps it at a good position for me. I will try adjusting its position some more and see if that helps.

[zzzzsleepy8]

People's mileage may differ but honestly in airsoft, you don't need real steel optics that can run hundreds to thousands of dollars, and looks the same as a cheapo version. If a BB cracks your $700 eotech, that can be painful.

Normally people run the ACOGs on top of the receiver area. If you're fancy you can even do 45 degree sights so you have long range optic, and you flip to 45 degree to see your 45 degree irons or red dot at closer range. But you wouldn't need to since your acog comes with the red dot at the top.

My personal preference is EXPS3 styled sights running 1/3 cowitness to flipup BUIS. PEQ on the top and front. I then run a flip to side magnifier behind the eotech. And thats the perfect setup. Its a little heavy but you get used to it.

Yeah, the rifle holding stance used by Chris Costa and Travis Haley in Magpul Dynamics can get tiring.

[SuperHog]

Tried them all. It seems for my playing style, red dots work the best. Faster acquisition than iron sights. Iron sights are useless in low light situations like CQB.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by zzzzsleepy8

People's mileage may differ but honestly in airsoft, you don't need real steel optics that can run hundreds to thousands of dollars, and looks the same as a cheapo version. If a BB cracks your $700 eotech, that can be painful.

Normally people run the ACOGs on top of the receiver area. If you're fancy you can even do 45 degree sights so you have long range optic, and you flip to 45 degree to see your 45 degree irons or red dot at closer range. But you wouldn't need to since your acog comes with the red dot at the top.

My personal preference is EXPS3 styled sights running 1/3 cowitness to flipup BUIS. PEQ on the top and front. I then run a flip to side magnifier behind the eotech. And thats the perfect setup. Its a little heavy but you get used to it.

Yeah, the rifle holding stance used by Chris Costa and Travis Haley in Magpul Dynamics can get tiring.

Yeah that does seem pretty heavy. I do have 45 degree mount so I could essentially run the ACOG and the RDS but I like what I have right now. I do want to buy a proper RDS and play around with cowitness, I do like it but I have to try it first and see if its right for me. As for the holding stance, lol my arm gets tired pretty quick when I throw everything I have on and put all the accessories on my SCAR, then hold it with my support arm almost fully extended. I've always wondered how people can hold a rifle like that. I was also curious if there's a technique/easy way to sighting a pistol with both eyes open, been trying it today but it's pretty hard with IS.

[zzzzsleepy8]

I agree its very tiring. But it does seem to stabilize the rifle pretty well and is good for range shooting to drive the barrel to target so you can engage faster. If target shooting on the range you're only doing that for a few minutes continuously anyway. Its not like you are on patrol or something in that stance. Under those circumstances being a short time frame it might be ok. I find a vertical foregrip is much easier to hold for longer term in ready position. That, or as the grunts will say, time to work out more. Also, those stances are more for real rifles where there is recoil and muzzle rise management to consider too. Airsoft, even with a GBBR, is still a different beast altogether.

Yeah. Those trijcon RMR sights are often put on pistols also because they are so small. So it works just the same. You can shoot pistols both eyes too with a red dot. Chris Costa with his M&P 9C with Trijicon RMR:

Custom MP9c CCW Pistol w/ Trijicon RMR - YouTube

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by zzzzsleepy8

I agree its very tiring. But it does seem to stabilize the rifle pretty well and is good for range shooting to drive the barrel to target so you can engage faster. If target shooting on the range you're only doing that for a few minutes continuously anyway. Its not like you are on patrol or something in that stance. Under those circumstances being a short time frame it might be ok. I find a vertical foregrip is much easier to hold for longer term in ready position. That, or as the grunts will say, time to work out more. Also, those stances are more for real rifles where there is recoil and muzzle rise management to consider too. Airsoft, even with a GBBR, is still a different beast altogether.

Yeah. Those trijcon RMR sights are often put on pistols also because they are so small. So it works just the same. You can shoot pistols both eyes too with a red dot. Chris Costa with his M&P 9C with Trijicon RMR:

Custom MP9c CCW Pistol w/ Trijicon RMR - YouTube

I did a little research on Chris Costa, and I read an article written by someone who took his course. Apparently Chris Costa is very rough with his guns, specifically his pistols. The article also mentions that Chris constantly rubs his pistol on rocks and what not. In the video, he mentions that he snags his rmr on objects, not sure if its on purpose or not, but the fact that he sort of abuses his guns was kind of a turn down for me.

But that custom MP9c is definitely a sexy pistol, and I think an rmr would definitely help with target acquisition, how would you fit that in a holster? I'm guessing they have ones that are made for specific pistols with rmr's or mrds's. Also, wouldn't I need a rail system to mount an rmr on my pistol? In the video you posted, Chris says that his gun is customized for him, the rmr is mounted on the slide and he still has his stock sights on.