Thinking about giving up and leaving AS...

[Koopa]

have simply equated complex scenarios/objectives with milsim.

I agree.

The best game I have ever played had no objectives except find/shoot the other base/players and dont get killed. Basically '1.Go out on field 2.Game starts in an hour 3.See ya in 24 hours' (although by 21 hours we felt some objectives could have helped)

[SovietHippie]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

What you call Mr. Dressup time others call challenge. Stick a couple of fucking steel Level III plates in your rig, a full 3 liter blader, a real world loadout of miscellanious crap (batteries, food, assorted kit) and a few extra pounds to simulate a real ammo load, and go play the same game you play in your tee shirt. I bet you have just a touch of trouble.

I want to experince what a soldier goes through, at least from a loadout perspective. It's not about fucking shooting people. It's about trying to APPRECIATE the real world environment, and still be able to complete whatever task you are set to do.
.

This is EXACTLY what attracted me to airsoft, I got nibbling on the fact of the 1:1 replicas of real world weapons, then seeing some of the loudouts that people come out with(Eg: Yuxi ect.) That was the bite for me. I was hooked. Honestly, I played paintball a few times, tried squad tactics, rarely worked because of the "Run 'n' Gun" aspect that paintball seems to have to it, regardless I LOVE the rush the paintball gave me, and I can only imagine that it is about X10 playing airsoft. Honestly, I can't see myself doing a 24 hour milsim atleast for a while after I begin to play, I just don't think I could be able to perform to my best without having played a few scrims first.

That's my 0.02, hope to see you on the field in a few years.
Soviethippie

[vondnik]

IPSC, IPDA and Service rifle my friend

[MilanWG]

Blackthorne, you need to respond without swearing and without the attidude.

Im not talking down on people who like their gear, I just think people sometimes load up way to much.

Im ALL for realism. I dont use hi-cap mags either, lol. I like to stick to my GBB if you really must know. I just have been to more than one game where direct hits have not been felt by other players because of excessive amounts of gear worn. If you can feel hits and call them, power to you and wear what you want.

I try to keep my gear around my waist area. I have my mag pouch/holder and my mag dump pouch. I also try to keep my back clear of packs/camelbacks because shots to bags are imposible to feel.

I love airsoft and was also drawn to the sport by the 1/1 realism of the equipment.

Dont take anything I have said personal, its just my opinion.

Thanks guys :kill:

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Feuchtinger

I doubt every single person of that "new generation" is gonna be some guy who think he is playing a CS game, running around with an Iron Maiden t-shirt wasting 4k BBs/h.

I know I won't at least, and I'm part of that new generation !

Wasn't implying everyone in the "new generation" of players is like that, or even that it had anything to do with new players; I've seen the same attitude with some of the older players. Some people just want to skirmish, little or no gear, and that's fine: those are skirmishes.

But if people want to wear a full loadout to a skirmish, that's fine too. It's their business. And honestly you do need to get used to playing with a ton of gear on, it's hot, it's heavy, it's restrictive. But no one should be slagging them for it, and that where comments like "People seem to like dressing up in tons of tac vests and other gear that is over the top and unnecessary" become really annoying, and quite frankly it's just plain ignorant.

And if it IS a milsim game -- really milsim and not just glorified CS with contrived objectives -- then sorry, but I think it IS necessary.

That being said, I know there are many new players who are into the gear and realism and general milsim aspect of airsoft. But at the same time, if vets like Hellranger (who've seen and contributed to good milsim games) are fed up and thinking of calling it quits, I can only imagine how disheartening it would be to someone new hoping to find good milsim.

[GreyFox132]

i must admit that i am partially hot headed when i play:P all be it i am new and have only been to a few games. Its just that you get so into it and don't realize it and you just start darting around shooting off hundreds of shots. I've also been told that i haven't called many of the shots that have hit me which i try to work on :P. Hopefully i can tone it down a bit when i play :P

[Raven]

Hi All,

As most of you know, i dont really post anymore in the general section mostly becuase of the shift in maturity of players and Chairsofters who seem to have taken over our glorious sport. BUT, seeing that one of the Vets of this sport is getting pissed enought to even thinking of quitting make me sick.

HR is 100% right, even if i am happy to see the sport grow.. to many people have tried to make a fast $$ and has brought whole sport to an all time low. There are 10 times more fields than before, 10 times more choices for players to make.. and 10 times less quality than was offered before (LZ and a few others excluded)

THe major problem is the same that existed when we started the PQAC. Too many people have opinions on how things should work. The whole reason for starting a club was to chanel those opinions into some soft of coherant, understandable and realistic gameplay. And the one thing that made it work was that all players respected the direction of the organizer who really do try hard to put on good games. The players that woudl not.. woudl just be asked ot leave or to never show up. It seems that today, all respect for organizers is lost. I have been to great potential games in the last few years, games that you can see had taken alot of energy and thinking to set up just to see the scenarios go to shit because certain players woudl either not show up or decide to do their own thing. The only way scenarios work is if all pieces work together, the airsofter being the most important piece of the puzzle. IF YOU COMMIT TO PLAYING AN ORGANIZED EVENT... THEN COMMIT TO PLAYING THE ROLE ASSIGNED TO YOU> On the other hand, if you want to Skirmish.. then the game should be clearly identified as a skirmish game.

Players shoudl recognize what they like to do and ignore games that does not fit their style. everyone will be much more happy.

This is one of the main reasons why the PQAC only organizes private games, INVITE only, because we feel that whatever energy we put into games, we want everyone that participates to enjoy and appreciate the day they are paying for. Also, We as organizers want to enjoy the day... not run around trying to fix what selfish players decide to change.

For anyone interested in scenario play, please contact BRUCE to be added to the roster for invite. And for those who do not know our style, we love what we do.. but we dont accept any Bull.

cheers

Raven

[MADDOG]

Originally Posted by beatbaker

Blackthorne, you need to respond without swearing and without the attidude.

Im not talking down on people who like their gear, I just think people sometimes load up way to much.

Im ALL for realism. I dont use hi-cap mags either, lol. I like to stick to my GBB if you really must know. I just have been to more than one game where direct hits have not been felt by other players because of excessive amounts of gear worn. If you can feel hits and call them, power to you and wear what you want.

I try to keep my gear around my waist area. I have my mag pouch/holder and my mag dump pouch. I also try to keep my back clear of packs/camelbacks because shots to bags are imposible to feel.

I love airsoft and was also drawn to the sport by the 1/1 realism of the equipment.

Dont take anything I have said personal, its just my opinion.

Thanks guys

This whole feel the hits issue is bulls**t in my opinion regardless of how much gear you wear. It is just an excuse for a player to carry on when they know damn well they have been hit. It is convenient and well used excuse that holds no weight with me.

The sound of BB hitting cordura/nylon packed with gear is distinctive and hard to ignore unless individuals choose to do so.
Watching the bb bounce off your gear and drop at your feet is hard to ignore unless the player chooses to use that as a excuse for not getting shot. You may wear a helmet, but since you cannot feel a hit you will ignore the bouncing BB's and the sound it makes and hope know one notices.

I have better than 30/20 vision and I can see my BB right up to the time of impact. I don't miss much and I have seen the realization in people that they think they can get away with it since it only hit part of their gear, not them in a fleshy part of the body. You wear it, its hit, your gone. Too many times I have had to follow up a one or two shot hit with a BB hosing to get people to call out. There was a time when this was never needed and people did not have to resort to hi-caps to ensure they put 20 bb's on a player before they called themselves out.

Regardless of Milsim or Skirmish, If there is one thing that could drive me to give up the sport is this lack of responsibilty and unfair behavior, because in peoples minds they want to be the ultimate "soldier" even if they have to cheat to realize their ambition.

[Raven]

Bah... there will always be cheaters... or sometimes it is legitimate. When it happens... just shoot them again.. its part of the game... just make sure you shoot them where you know they will feel it eh! Also, if it becomes a pattern with certain players, just make sure you advise teh organizers.. they will take it into consideration next time they invite certain people!

[swatt13]

it saddens me as well to stand by and watch all these new players getting into the sport for the wrong reason. it seems there is no honour chivalry or sportsman ship in them. its all about geting any edge over your opponent to ensure you win instead of meeting them on a level battle field. all too often you see people rediculously upgradeing their guns and hid behind them, a psg1 barrel and a hicap in a p90 @ 400fps... cmon... thats just rediculous. or a drum mag on an ar or g36. does no one like to change mags and give their opponent a chance? these are "cheater guns"

its not about winning or loseing, its about haveing a great time and enjoying the game. too many people are getting tunnel visino and focusing on the final outcome of the one game, you dont "win" just because your team won, you "win" when youve played so everyone youve been along side or come up against says "wow, what a great player" or even if it doesnt come to that, just ensuring theyve had a good time as well. its everyones reasponsability to work together friend or foe to complete the package and make the game a good time.

to me the problem lays with the weapons, as i said people are becomeing too dependant on them, modding them so they can engage an opponent before they get too close often to the point where the opponent still doesnt even have range himself. too many people are dependant on hicaps - problem? ultimatly yes. no one take the time to learn trigger control. spray and pray, no single fire, or burst, just hold down the triger wave the gun back and forth until the mag is empty or they opponent is out. no one take the time, effort to learn to be a good player anymore. its turning into paintball to say the least.

this sport is about HONOUR, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, TRUST. be a man. meet your opponent on a level playing field.

[MADDOG]

Originally Posted by Raven

Bah... there will always be cheaters... or sometimes it is legitimate. When it happens... just shoot them again.. its part of the game... just make sure you shoot them where you know they will feel it eh! Also, if it becomes a pattern with certain players, just make sure you advise teh organizers.. they will take it into consideration next time they invite certain people!

Most people, you would think ,would learn the lesson after a time.
But if not, pain is the great equalizer it always gets them out eventually.

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by swatt13

it saddens me as well to stand by and watch all these new players getting into the sport for the wrong reason. it seems there is no honour chivalry or sportsman ship in them. its all about geting any edge over your opponent to ensure you win instead of meeting them on a level battle field. all too often you see people rediculously upgradeing their guns and hid behind them, a psg1 barrel and a hicap in a p90 @ 400fps... cmon... thats just rediculous. or a drum mag on an ar or g36. does no one like to change mags and give their opponent a chance? these are "cheater guns"

its not about winning or loseing, its about haveing a great time and enjoying the game. too many people are getting tunnel visino and focusing on the final outcome of the one game, you dont "win" just because your team won, you "win" when youve played so everyone youve been along side or come up against says "wow, what a great player" or even if it doesnt come to that, just ensuring theyve had a good time as well. its everyones reasponsability to work together friend or foe to complete the package and make the game a good time.

to me the problem lays with the weapons, as i said people are becomeing too dependant on them, modding them so they can engage an opponent before they get too close often to the point where the opponent still doesnt even have range himself. too many people are dependant on hicaps - problem? ultimatly yes. no one take the time to learn trigger control. spray and pray, no single fire, or burst, just hold down the triger wave the gun back and forth until the mag is empty or they opponent is out. no one take the time, effort to learn to be a good player anymore. its turning into paintball to say the least.

this sport is about HONOUR, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, TRUST. be a man. meet your opponent on a level playing field.

You're getting a PTW, are you not? If you answer yes, you can pretty much take your "cheater gun" argument, and crap on it.

I agree about the hi-cap bullshit. If you're not a support gunner, there's no need.

Hah, if I tag someone, and I know (for a fact) they're cheating, and not calling their hits, my muzzle will light they're balls, or hands like the fires of hell.... Fuckin' slow roast.

[TokyoSeven]

Originally Posted by swatt13

this sport is about HONOUR, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, TRUST.

A beautiful truth, and a truth that should never be forgotten, That statement is something to be honored and upheld with the utmost respect possible at all times regardless the situation.

If you shoot your opponent and they take the hit and fall and injure themselfves, you stop, and you picked them up and dust them off and make sure they are alright.

Your target is not only your opponent but a fellow airsofter as well, for that day they maybe your prey and your enemy but they are your brothers and sisters in this commnity. Support each other, its not our gear that AEGs that matter when we play, its our hearts and our integrity, and our respect for our fellows players.

[SINN]

attidude

blackthorne is all about "atti" dude. lol

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by SINN

blackthorne is all about "atti" dude. lol

That sounds like "attic dude".. CREEPY!

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

Your target is not only your opponent but a fellow airsofter as well, for that day they maybe your prey and your enemy but they are your brothers and sisters in this commnity. Support each other, its not our gear that AEGs that matter when we play, its our hearts and our integrity, and our respect for our fellows players.

Well said, bro.

You're out, playing with good people. Why would you want to be a cheatin', cock-smoker? Doesn't make sense to me.