Thunder Bay Police out of line

[Curo]

It's the Canadian laws, the last place you should look for logic.

[durak]

An importer out of vancover, i dont recall the name as it was before my time, was bringing in guns with this method shortly after they were made prohib, but eventually stoped upgrading them before import while still declaring them as uncontrolled, and multiple containers were tested and failed and they shut him down and closed the loophole. only recently,within the last 2 years, reopening it after the efforts of a few airsofters. in the meantime cansoft was made to get in guns legaly, for AEGs its slowly dieing off, but is still the only legal way of getting pistols in as it is very difficult and expensive to get a GBB pistol to shoot over 407 fps on green gas.

[Danke]

The velocity is set a value that has been found to cause serious harm. Usually defined as "lethality", not used in the sense that it will kill you but in the sense can cause injury like blinding. The firearms folks test a variety of ways from using animal carcasses & other means to see what damage a projectile will do.

The Cansoft idea came up as a workaround for items/manufacturers not on the FRT. I'm sure if there were tests done on those they'd also fall into unregulated file but for someone who was bringing in a boatload of them the clear receiver was cheap insurance. Even if they were seized and then released the delay caused by that could sink you. When payments are due and your product is being inspected instead of on the shelf you're going out of business.

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

It's no secret how cansoft stuff is regarded on this site (just look at some of the reactions to the recent arrival of cansoft TM pistols....

I think there are 2 really distinct schools of though on this, with some overlap.

There are some hardcore realists out there for whom anything that's remotely see-through just won't do. They would prefer own nothing than own something even so heavily tinted that you can't tell from a couple of feet away (which BTW really defeats the purpose of making the receiver see-through in the first place, but whatever...). Even the guys that would otherwise paint their plastic TM receivers or pistols whatever other colour seem to balk at these guns. Whatever floats your boat guys.

Then I think you have a larger group of people who are ok with the idea of tinted receivers, but are flabbergasted that these guns are costing the same or more than the completely opaque versions we've had access to here on ASC for years. For years, people were using the utterly bullshit excuses that our toys cost so much because they were brought in illegally, BFLs were expensive, middlemen had to be paid, etc... Yeah yeah... whatever. Now we're getting reamed for guns that in some cases are inferior quality to the opaque versions (G&G) or the same (KWA, KJW, and now TM) and we're still paying the same ridiculous 2-4x markup over the USD price overseas.

You'll find this last point is what most people have issues with when it comes to Cansoft and the new TM pistols.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

I think there are 2 really distinct schools of though on this, with some overlap.

There are some hardcore realists out there for whom anything that's remotely see-through just won't do. They would prefer own nothing than own something even so heavily tinted that you can't tell from a couple of feet away (which BTW really defeats the purpose of making the receiver see-through in the first place, but whatever...). Even the guys that would otherwise paint their plastic TM receivers or pistols whatever other colour seem to balk at these guns. Whatever floats your boat guys.

Then I think you have a larger group of people who are ok with the idea of tinted receivers, but are flabbergasted that these guns are costing the same or more than the completely opaque versions we've had access to here on ASC for years. For years, people were using the utterly bullshit excuses that our toys cost so much because they were brought in illegally, BFLs were expensive, middlemen had to be paid, etc... Yeah yeah... whatever. Now we're getting reamed for guns that in some cases are inferior quality to the opaque versions (G&G) or the same (KWA, KJW, and now TM) and we're still paying the same ridiculous 2-4x markup over the USD price overseas.

You'll find this last point is what most people have issues with when it comes to Cansoft and the new TM pistols.

Good point, I didn't consider this as part of the overall mix.

I'm kind of in both camps. If the legalities were simpler, my interest in Cansoft would drop, but for the moment I primarily care about gearboxes above all else.

Markup is definitely a bitch, though prices seem to be somewhat compressing lately. Talking to my local retailer, he seems to be genuinely interested in continuing to lower prices wherever he can and I've definitely seen that happening even in the short time I've been watching the market. Their store brand prices dropped dramatically while new mid-range stuff came in at better prices (I'm speaking of the $350 King Arms M4) to fill the gap between the inexpensive stuff and the high-dollar stuff like G&P.

Like you, I'm somewhat internally dismissive of the excuses that we get from the market about markups .. It resembles the excuses we get in other consumer markets.

Nevertheless, I would insist that if the risks and the "heat" felt in this market were lower, prices would drop. Prices would drop even faster if we had free trade of this stuff. This is another reason why I hold up the UK situation in high regard. Their market is better too. If we grew our market and industry through better laws, making that industry illegal would become much more difficult. Governments are loathe to take away jobs through regulation, especially Conservative ones, and these days that seems to be the direction the country is trending.


edit: the defeat and re-defeat of SB798 in California is a prime example of an industry raising awareness en masse to signal to government that there are jobs and income at stake.

[TPM001]

....

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by TPM001

....

Whoops. You had a great comment here before you edited it away I was going to agree with your point and say that common sense and smart handling of our gear is key. I also wonder if there are ways that this community can firewall itself against the actions of those that are not within the community.

For example, the kid from Alberta with the YouTube channel where he shoots people in his neighbourhood as pranks... It's hard to combat something outside of the community, so if there was a way to distinguish what we are doing at our games from what is happening in the hands of irresponsible teens, that would be good.

[TPM001]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Our laws are fucked up and convoluted. They deal with the importation and transfer of replicas, but not with possession. You can own and use them. You just can't import, buy or sell them.

It's more complicated than that of course, but that's the basics of it. Perhaps someone can explain the law in more detail than I can.

Welcome to Canada. Prostitution laws are similar. It's not illegal to sell yourself for sex...but it's illegal to pay someone for it.

[pancakedestroyer]

Originally Posted by durak

An importer out of vancover, i dont recall the name as it was before my time, was bringing in guns with this method shortly after they were made prohib, but eventually stoped upgrading them before import while still declaring them as uncontrolled, and multiple containers were tested and failed and they shut him down and closed the loophole. only recently,within the last 2 years, reopening it after the efforts of a few airsofters. in the meantime cansoft was made to get in guns legaly, for AEGs its slowly dieing off, but is still the only legal way of getting pistols in as it is very difficult and expensive to get a GBB pistol to shoot over 407 fps on green gas.

Durak, the guy from Vancouver (if its the same one) was actually misusing a props license, that is why he got busted. There is a whole bunch of info on it somewhere on here.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Police lay charges, the crown prosecutes them.

A charge is not a conviction, neither is it actually evidence of any wrongdoing.

The fact is it is far easier for police to make some good "public Service " hay out of confiscating guns from retailers and legal owners than it is for them to go after actual criminals.

They can line up all their "seized weapons" take nice photos of them.. and comment how they "got guns off the streets" and still make it home for dinner.

Investigating crimes, and arresting dangerous criminals is actual work.. and could be dangerous.

They get paid the same regardless of who they arrest.

This is not a "airsoft" story.. This is yet another "lazy ass public service employee" story

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by TPM001

Welcome to Canada. Prostitution laws are similar. It's not illegal to sell yourself for sex...but it's illegal to pay someone for it.

Yeah, I don't expect our laws to make sense, particularly gun laws. Most of them are the way they are because of panic, knee-jerk reactions by politicians looking to appease the panicked masses. The laws, of course, do little to nothing to actually protect anyone, but are sold to the public that way to give them peace of mind.

[Danke]

Where is the press release or links to stories in the local papers?

Any further info?

[toadhound]

It hasn't hit the papers, I know the owner of the paintball field that was raided and it was also on the local CBC radio this morning. If it does make it in to the paper I will post up a link.

[dogtoy]

On the one hand we have absolute idiot kids running around with airsoft
which plays right into the soccer moms , & police hands ,...& then things like this ,....When any authorities behave in this manor ,...& fail to educate themselves the laws & peoples rights ,....well I just hope somewhere there is an airsoft player studying law & one say he will grow up & own a giant law firm with an army of lawyers ,...& every time some politician , soccer mom .or thug cop trys to pull this media stunt "Im a hero cuz I got the scary looking harmless guns off the street " routine an army of lawyers show up ,...start a media campaign & sue them off the face of this earth,...

[durak]

Originally Posted by pancakedestroyer

Durak, the guy from Vancouver (if its the same one) was actually misusing a props license, that is why he got busted. There is a whole bunch of info on it somewhere on here.

thats propscam, not the same guy.