See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[lemegacool]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

I think we need to remember here guys is the issue isn't really clear guns.. it's the mass availability of clear guns leading to a gradual decline in the quality of the player base.

+1000

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Capt.erHead

Airsoft is a toy and children should be able to play with toys.

Originally Posted by Capt.erHead

To sum it all up, 'elite' airsoft died because of the sheer cost of the guns and by taking it away from those that would best propogate the sport the way in which we, the community, would have liked to see flourish.

What, in the hands of underagers? (legal, -18) That's the exact opposite view of how the sport should flourish in the eyes of "the community".

Originally Posted by Capt.erHead

It's certainly been interesting to be part of a community and watch it quickly grow to its pinnacle and then watch it slowly die a drawn out death.

Airsoft in Canada is not dying. Fear mongers say this, that the sky is falling and airsoft in Canada is going to die.

It is not.

[Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw]

Maybe thats just a scare tactic for the underagers to trick us into letting them play and become part of our community. Worked for religion didn't it?

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw

Maybe thats just a scare tactic for the underagers to trick us into letting them play and become part of our community. Worked for religion didn't it?

No, religion is top-down, not bottom-up leadership. Completely opposite.

JOC is about the last bastion of airsoft in Alberta currently. Not much happening elsewhere this year. When you have guys in street clothes and clear guns thinking they know what to do and barking orders, it's a little hard not to laugh.

[SDS_ShooterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

No, religion is top-down, not bottom-up leadership. Completely opposite.

JOC is about the last bastion of airsoft in Alberta currently. Not much happening elsewhere this year. When you have guys in street clothes and clear guns thinking they know what to do and barking orders, it's a little hard not to laugh.

Since when does your AEG and apparel make you qualified enough to bark orders?

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by SDS_ShooterMcGavin

Since when does your AEG and apparel make you qualified enough to bark orders?

It means you've probably been around more than a game or 2 to know how guns and people perform, as well as tactics.

Funny you've been here since 2006, you should know this by now.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

No, religion is top-down, not bottom-up leadership. Completely opposite.

JOC is about the last bastion of airsoft in Alberta currently. Not much happening elsewhere this year. When you have guys in street clothes and clear guns thinking they know what to do and barking orders, it's a little hard not to laugh.

Originally Posted by SDS_ShooterMcGavin

Since when does your AEG and apparel make you qualified enough to bark orders?

I'm going to have to agree there, kit doesn't make the player.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

I'm going to have to agree there, kit doesn't make the player.

Not when you play 5 minute scrims on a paintball field, no.

When you are out in the sun for 6 hours, no breaks, yes, kit does make the player, and lack of kit finishes him.

The army doesn't let you show up to fight in street clothes, for this very reason.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Not when you play 5 minute scrims on a paintball field, no.

When you are out in the sun for 6 hours, no breaks, yes, kit does make the player, and lack of kit finishes him.

The army doesn't let you show up to fight in street clothes, for this very reason.

Yeah, no gunfighter in the world can perform without the proper gear, all warriors get the best stuff money can buy. No one picks up a gun because they are being oppressed.

EDIT: Also let me interject, there is no difference between playing dress up army, dress up police, dress up rebel, or dress up freedom fighter. It's a game. If your game has strict guidelines so as to cohere to the fantasy you're presenting, then it's fine to exclude those without the kit to participate, but claiming that everyone should follow one rule set for equipment and clothing is absurd.

[henchman21]

The way I've seen it, thre are 2 kinds of 'softers: Milsimmer and Scrimmer. The milsimmers don't play well with others because of committment to the style of play, the scrimmer doesn't care. Personally, i don't have an interest in scrimming, no real value, don't really learn a thing. Scrimmers se it as "training", while I don't see how, you don't reinforce a skill set, you just go and shoot. While fun for some, not my bag. If all you want to do is run around in the woods shooting, take up woods ball, it's the same effing thing. The rest of us value the personal training and discipline required to think and act as a team in a replication of a real environment. to me, this is the sport's attraction.
Too bad that woodsball crept into airsoft.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

Yeah, no gunfighter in the world can perform without the proper gear, all warriors get the best stuff money can buy. No one picks up a gun because they are being oppressed.

EDIT: Also let me interject, there is no difference between playing dress up army, dress up police, dress up rebel, or dress up freedom fighter. It's a game. If your game has strict guidelines so as to cohere to the fantasy you're presenting, then it's fine to exclude those without the kit to participate, but claiming that everyone should follow one rule set for equipment and clothing is absurd.

Funny, when I put on gear, I don't emulate or replicate any soldier in any army from any country in the world. I seek no impression at all. I wear gear that works, is durable, can carry the minimum equipment and supplies need to keep me self-sufficient.

This means that I'm not running back to my vehicle for batteries, BBs, food, water, mags, tools, radio, whatever. I'm not a burden to my team members because I'm unable to fight, or sustain myself, or cover my own PPE needs.

This means that I'm effective at my role, or even more importantly, that someone doesn't have to lose out on the game by babysitting my ass out there.

Now, will a guy in street clothes be able to carry water, BBs, batteries, mags, food, tools, proper PPE and still be concealable enough to not give himself away or his team? And by giving himself away unnecessarily, does this mean he becomes a casuality and reduces his effectiveness, or requires a teammate to tend to him (like in a medic role)?

If all you play is indoor or outdoor scrims at a speedball field, these are non-issues really. But is that airsoft? No, it is 6mm paintball.

This goes to the heart of the "airsoft tourism" that brought about this thread in the first place. It is nobody's job to "mentor" anyone. You show up to a field, ready to go and be responsible for yourself, or find a different hobby. It's really that simple.

[pusangani]

^ +1 McGyver

Tom, I think you misunderstood the part about barking orders and being suitably attired. I'm more likely to listen to someone that looks like a seasoned vet than some speedballer with an AEG in his hands. I trust that person more, but you are correct, the gear doesn't make the player it DOES give a good indication of their commitment to the activity at hand tho.

LOL @ 6mm paintball!

[Assault Pioneer]

I agree with Mcguyver,

you gotta atleast have a tac vest. you gotta be combat effective. NO ONE wants to see some guy stuff a mag in his jeans pocket, and hide a speedloader in his sock. And whats so hard about putting a brown,od or black plain t shirt, they sell them at old navy, khaki's or black jeans should work too, and hiking boots too. I still use that deal, you dont want to game in your bright coloured bedazzled normal clothing its common sense.

I started Airsoft when I was fourteen and unemployed, Spent all my money getting my first primary and 3 mags, but tac vests/webbing only cost like $80 max, I got one right away, one mag puch held a water bottle till I scrounged up $40 for a camel pack.

look if your dropping the cash to get the "clear" guns their $100 to $500 at bass pro theres vests you can buy that are $40 literally 8 feet from the Krakens.

Anyone thinking that you have to drop the moolah on the elite packages is wrong. but there has got to be a standard in combat effectiveness. wood coloured or black clothing, safety glasses (obviously) and a rig or belt, hell get two mag dumps, one for full one for empty, and a single m16 mag pouch for a watter bottle.

its a different game, you cant just walk in with a single hi-cap and expect it to last, anyone with this mindset will obviosly get slapped awake at their first game and the morons will loose their authority with failure, I wouldnt listen to one, I look forward to the day when Mcguyver barks orders to me when I get a chance to play in his area lol!

[infernau]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Ok, I was wrong... and I admit it.

I thought that the proliferation of inexpensive clear receiver guns would result in an expansion of this activity and a revitalization of the community.

I was wrong... What has happened is a "dumbing down" The bar to entry to this activity has been lowered so low at this point that pretty much anyone with $100 can get into the game.

Now we see retailers selling dollar store junk as "airsoft guns" at $60 and $80 to people who then will undoubtedly show up at the next game .. and subsequently whine about the "elite assholes" who looked down on them.

Instead of growing the community it has divided it between " Kraken toting mag ticklers" and those who invest in "real airsoft"

"real" airsoft has been pretty much marginalized as the purview of the affluent few.. with connections, submerged under a sea of Cheap clear guns.

Many people have withdrawn from the public community because of this.. retreating to enclaves of "serious players" who have written off for the most part the wider community.

Lots of guys called it right when the last of the large public retailers of "real airsoft" guns folded ... the writting was on the wall... but now its large enough for all to see.

The "barbarian Invasion" of "Kraken Toting Mag Ticklers "(KTMTs) is proceeding inexorably to the final conclusion .... when the back yard clear softers will inherit ASC.

The "serious" collectors and players are still out there.. and many still lurk here .. and granted many KTMTs graduate to real guns in time and make the transition to Real guns and committment to the activity. it's the ratio of "wheat to chaff" that I bemoan.

Call me Elitist if you want... because I am

If someone wants to play airsoft and doesn't have much $$ then they should be allowed. I've had a hell of a time playing with a friend's crossman shotgun (the one that uses shells) I personally would never buy clearsoft but it's not my place to say where people that do get to play. I'm sure they'll learn quickly that clear soft so called junk has it's place in airsoft but must accept the limitations of those budget guns. Don't expect a $120 gun to shoot like a $600 gun, doesn't happen. I've had a stroke of luck lately, purchasing a M15CQB armalite all metal from CA for $150, it needed less than $30 of spare parts. Mind you that's rare but it's possible and just because someone's spent several $100's or $1000's on gear doesn't make them any better nor should their voice be heard any more than someone who's new and on a tight budget. New players should be encouraged no matter the budget or skill level, besides after 6 six or so if they're still really into it they'll probably trade in their clear soft and upgrade but we shouldn't, as airsoft players, discourage people from playing. Frankly I believe the only reason people still buy clearsoft is 'cause we get absolutely hosed in Canada on airsoft gear. Guns up here go for 3-4 times what they go for in the states, not right at all. We should all be ambassadors for airsoft and look into have similar laws to the states, hell I'd even get an FAC if it meant I can buy any airsoft gun I want regardless of make or composition.

That's just me 2 cents..play on.

[Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw]

A) Its no longer called the FAC, its called a (R)PAL. (Restricted)Purchase and Acquisition License.

B) Having your (R)PAL has NO bearing on airsoft. Two completely different species. You have just been fed lies and marketing gimicks by some retailers saying "Canadian Legal". It is NOT illegal to own and possess a full metal full black airsoft gun. You just can't order from overseas.