What do you guys think of mag fed?

[Wrath144]

For me, I like speedball paintball and milsim airsoft. I dislike milsim paintball and speedball airsoft.
Very few of those markers look cool to me. The "almost a gun" look is gross to me, especially with incorrect proportions. Back in my paintball days, all the milsim markers just seemed incredibly bulky and unnecessary to me. They have definitely gotten better, but still not enough to really interest me.
To me, paintball is about the competition. Hence, speedball. Airsoft is about the experience. Hence, milsim.

Edit: also I can't fucking stand scope risers on guns, which are pretty much necessary in paintball

[Ricochet]

I dislike the paint aspect, it's a hinderance overall and by no means not a help. With modern airsoft technology, the ability to mark a player is meaningless. Also the need for airlines and tanks, etc is a huge step in the wrong direction. I like the realism, but not over function and versatility. I still only use gas pistols and wouldn't touch a gas platform rifle, unless it was for a short skirmish. Airsoft for versatility, capability and of course the ever important untethered aspect. Paint sucks, I see more range and accuracy potential in airsoft by leaps and bounds. Making paintball guns more realistic is odd, as they are still stuck using paint and air lines/tanks, etc. Just my opinion, but this seems like paintball is like soy bacon to airsoft being real bacon. You keep trying to make it what we already have, but as long as it's soy, that's impossible. And if your food is so good, why do you keep trying to make it taste like mine. I'll never go back to paintball, forward and upwards, not backwards and downwards.

[brock0]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Paint sucks, I see more range and accuracy potential in airsoft by leaps and bounds. Making paintball guns more realistic is odd, as they are still stuck using paint and air lines/tanks, etc. Just my opinion, but this seems like paintball is like soy bacon to airsoft being real bacon. You keep trying to make it what we already have, but as long as it's soy, that's impossible. And if your food is so good, why do you keep trying to make it taste like mine. I'll never go back to paintball, forward and upwards, not backwards and downwards.

Couldn't have said it better.

Paintball is a kids game, and I'm sure you'd have plenty of interest in those almost guns and the magic rifled paint in an actual paintball forum.

[Red Dot]

The costs on those FSR are crazy compared to BBs.

100 FSR - $40
2000 .30 BBs - $18

0.4 cents a round for First Strike, 0.009 cents a BB. Plus BBs never develop flat-spots from storage or get broken in transit. Shelf life of paint is like 3 months before they start to degrade, BBs polystyrene never and even bio BBs are like a year+ once they are exposed to moisture/air/sunlight etc.

This tech is cool... I mean if you think about it Simunition is this technology adapted for use in real firearms for training. But not to beat a dead horse you won't find much love for it on this forum.

[SlamSlayer]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

With heavier rounds you have better potential for more range over airsoft, it's the deformation of the round in flight that really holds you back. I really do think you'd get a lot better range and accuracy with backspin as long as you could stop the rounds from deforming so much.
We're using tiny 6mm pellets that weight 0.30g and we're sending them very accurately out to 260ft.
Would be a matter of mass vs drag, but you'll never send a low velocity spheroid as far with rifling as you will with hopup. The rifling only stabilizes it axially to a limited extent so it doesn't tumble in flight. Hopup has the effect of stabilizing a spheroid and making it lift at low velocities.

But what if you guys came out with a shaped projectile like a BB? Something more aerodynamic. Like say first strike almost exactly but on a smaller scale. It would require proprietary equipment for sure, but if it worked that well, wouldn't people want to switch over? At the very least snipers.

First Strikes don't develop flat spots, they also are 100% unaffected by the weather (in short terms like a paintbal would be). They're made of a harder biodegradable plastic. Makes it harder for them to break in your marker as well. Some markers can actually simulated jams with them. We have a marker coming out called the PTR that will be closed bolt in action and more or less mimic a real AR to a tee. You even have a functional forward assist to clear the jams like the real thing. Only possible with First Strike.

Its funny though, hearing this side of it. When it comes to the negative stuff, both sides always have the same things to say about each other (Its a kids game for example lol).

Though I'm getting pretty positive responses back across the 6 or so forums I've posted this one. The most surprising I've found were people complaining about magazine size. Ours hold 20, closer to the real cap of 30 (and in some cases IS the real cap). But I had people telling me how much more realistic airsoft is, and then complaining our magazines don't hold 200 rounds. We have hoppers for that lol (or one of the LMG box mags).

[brock0]

"We have a marker coming out called the PTR"

"Our magazines hold 20 rounds"

"What if you guys did this"

We, us, paintballers, against you guys, the airsofters. That's what it sounds like.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make yourself feel better about paintball with some 8 year old idea that is ridiculously expensive or the really cool pseudo gun direction paintball markers are going but someone nailed it on page 1, straight up trolling.

[SlamSlayer]

How is this trolling? Have I insulted airsoft or any players on this forum? Do you guys have a paintball marker coming out called the PTR? Should I have said you have a marker coming out called the PTR. We literally have a marker coming out called the PTR lol.

I'm responding to posts. No us vs them. I'm also asking questions about your hobby. Why is this done like this and not like this? From my experience, this works. Its called a conversation.

[brock0]

A conversation about paintball, in an airsoft forum.

Different strokes for different folks, if you like it the good on you.

What response would I get if I posted pictures of airsoft guns that looked like a paintball gun in a paintball forum and said "hey guys what do you think of this?" I'm pretty sure nobody would give a sh**

[SlamSlayer]

Half a dozen other forums holding a fun conversation about it would say you're wrong. Just because you don't find it interesting, doesn't mean others don't too. Hell go back and read the other responses in THIS thread. You're literally the only person trying to instigate something here. Everyone else is responding in a constructive manner while you're all gtfo troll. Who's really trolling?

[brock0]

I've read the thread, I see a lot of "meh" from other users and you pumping it. If that's a fun conversation, then I guess you're right.

You asked for opinion and you're getting them, I just don't know what you expected from here or what a positive response would be: "wow cool!" ???

[SlamSlayer]

"Meh" responses are fine. They're also accompanied with constructive criticism which continues the conversation. Calling me a troll and telling me no one gives a shit isn't the same thing.

I just discovered airsoft has kind of a speedball playstyle to it. Speedsoft is it? I had no idea. Go bring that up on a speedball forum, its related, have a conversation. Yeah you'll get mixed responses, but you can compare and contrast them. Neither hobby looks good when they're too busy telling the other one they suck. Neither hobby would bring in new players curious about it from the other side if the player base comes off as hostile.

[brock0]

You wanted opinion, the opinion is that you're trolling by first post asking about paintball kit and what the airsoft world thinks of it. If you read carefully, I said that if I posted paintball look-a-like airsoft guns in a paintball forum that I felt nobody would care.

In my opinion, your finned ammo adds more fuel the argument that paintball is all about how much money you put into your marker and paint and there is a much larger disparity in quality of gear than there is in airsoft. It also says to me that despite what people say about cost, paintball is probably going to cost far more than airsoft in the long run, one more reason to prefer airsoft.

In my opinion it's very interesting that paintball markers are moving to a somewhat more realistic gun look. I think they're trying to appeal to players interested in more GEAR "realism", an area in which I feel airsoft is the much stronger game.

You'll find less than ideal players in either sport no argument there, but if my half dozen paintball experiences tell me anything, it's that I'd be OK if paintballers stayed interested in paintball and not in airsoft. This topic has come up before and I don't recall hearing from many posters who play both, or who went back to paintball after trying airsoft. You scoff when I say it's a kids game, but if you had to make an educated guess, how old is the average paintball enthusiast? Be honest with yourself.

I'm glad there is some quality gear out there for paintballers, but it would take a lot more than a finned paintball or a quasi realistic marker to make me want to play it. Just personal opinion.

[cetane]

Originally Posted by Red Dot

The costs on those FSR are crazy compared to BBs.

100 FSR - $40
2000 .30 BBs - $18

0.4 cents a round for First Strike, 0.009 cents a BB. Plus BBs never develop flat-spots from storage or get broken in transit. Shelf life of paint is like 3 months before they start to degrade, BBs polystyrene never and even bio BBs are like a year+ once they are exposed to moisture/air/sunlight etc.

This tech is cool... I mean if you think about it Simunition is this technology adapted for use in real firearms for training. But not to beat a dead horse you won't find much love for it on this forum.

For bb weights too, there is a group buy happening in the USA on the airsoft sniper forum (where recently this same thread popped up) that can get you 0.66 ceramic bearings (same/similar as the bbbastard pearls) for 0.20$ a piece. Not too badly priced for a heavy very precise bb....

Group buy link fyi:
http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/47...y-66g-bbs.html

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by SlamSlayer

But what if you guys came out with a shaped projectile like a BB? Something more aerodynamic. Like say first strike almost exactly but on a smaller scale. It would require proprietary equipment for sure, but if it worked that well, wouldn't people want to switch over? At the very least snipers.

Brock, be nice. There's no need to flame the guy for showing us something cool.

Cetane, ceramic ball bearings are pretty much indestructible. When a ceramic bearing fails, it's because the ceramic balls have dented the steel races. The bearing explodes and the balls are still perfectly round. I'm curious to know how similar in performance to silica BBs those would be.

Also as I had mentioned before, the idea of rifled shuttlecock rounds does not work nearly as well in theory as hopup does on a spheroid. And it HAS been done in practice, and performs even worse.
The reason for this is because the projectiles are so light, any spin on them is very prone to the magnus effect. So whereas backspin (hopup) on a BB will cause it to lift up into the air, rifling will cause it to veer off sharply in a given direction.
Non rifled shuttlecock rounds will fly more accurately than non spinning spheroids, but they won't go as far due to the increased drag.

Backspin stabilizes the spheroid and allows it to physically lift up through the air, producing a very accurate and flat trajectory over very long distances.

I want you to think really hard about just how small a 6mm BB is, and just how light .30g is, and then understand just how significant it is for that tiny lightweight projectile to fly 260 to 300ft at a muzzle energy of only 1.6 joules and have someone notice the impact.

[SlamSlayer]

Originally Posted by cetane

For bb weights too, there is a group buy happening in the USA on the airsoft sniper forum (where recently this same thread popped up) that can get you 0.66 ceramic bearings (same/similar as the bbbastard pearls) for 0.20$ a piece. Not too badly priced for a heavy very precise bb....

Group buy link fyi:
http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/47...y-66g-bbs.html

Yeah thats me. Like I said, I've been posting this all over looking for further opinions. To me its just interesting hearing what you guys have to say about it. Considering the standards you hold for the realistic look of your equipment.

Originally Posted by brock0

You wanted opinion, the opinion is that you're trolling by first post asking about paintball kit and what the airsoft world thinks of it. If you read carefully, I said that if I posted paintball look-a-like airsoft guns in a paintball forum that I felt nobody would care.

In my opinion, your finned ammo adds more fuel the argument that paintball is all about how much money you put into your marker and paint and there is a much larger disparity in quality of gear than there is in airsoft. It also says to me that despite what people say about cost, paintball is probably going to cost far more than airsoft in the long run, one more reason to prefer airsoft.

In my opinion it's very interesting that paintball markers are moving to a somewhat more realistic gun look. I think they're trying to appeal to players interested in more GEAR "realism", an area in which I feel airsoft is the much stronger game.

You'll find less than ideal players in either sport no argument there, but if my half dozen paintball experiences tell me anything, it's that I'd be OK if paintballers stayed interested in paintball and not in airsoft. This topic has come up before and I don't recall hearing from many posters who play both, or who went back to paintball after trying airsoft. You scoff when I say it's a kids game, but if you had to make an educated guess, how old is the average paintball enthusiast? Be honest with yourself.

I'm glad there is some quality gear out there for paintballers, but it would take a lot more than a finned paintball or a quasi realistic marker to make me want to play it. Just personal opinion.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned airsoft will always be cheaper than paintball. If I haven't, I completely agree. Other companies are coming out with cheaper shaped rounds for other applications. Like I said, these are a sniper round and if you don't try and shoot 7 mags of 20 rounds each game, a box last all day for cheaper than a case of paint. A box of 100 first strike cost $40, as a sniper that will last all day. A box of Rap4 shaped rounds are supposed to be $13 for a box of 100 (f that is the capacity they come). You can buy a decent amount of those for your normal rifleman style load out.

As far as average age, that really depends on what side of paintball you look at. Speedball for example, definitely is on the lower side. Kids in their mid to late teens dominate that and they start pretty young (early teens). Sadly, thats also where you see the shittiest attitudes. Woodsball as a whole has a very broad age range. Much harder to nail down an average and mag fed so far has a much higher age rate simply because the gear does get expensive. Even though there is entry level gear like speedball. But there is less of it and what is entry level, isnt as "tacticool" as the mid and hi end stuff.

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Brock, be nice. There's no need to flame the guy for showing us something cool.

Cetane, ceramic ball bearings are pretty much indestructible. When a ceramic bearing fails, it's because the ceramic balls have dented the steel races. The bearing explodes and the balls are still perfectly round. I'm curious to know how similar in performance to silica BBs those would be.

Also as I had mentioned before, the idea of rifled shuttlecock rounds does not work nearly as well in theory as hopup does on a spheroid. And it HAS been done in practice, and performs even worse.
The reason for this is because the projectiles are so light, any spin on them is very prone to the magnus effect. So whereas backspin (hopup) on a BB will cause it to lift up into the air, rifling will cause it to veer off sharply in a given direction.
Non rifled shuttlecock rounds will fly more accurately than non spinning spheroids, but they won't go as far due to the increased drag.

Backspin stabilizes the spheroid and allows it to physically lift up through the air, producing a very accurate and flat trajectory over very long distances.

I want you to think really hard about just how small a 6mm BB is, and just how light .30g is, and then understand just how significant it is for that tiny lightweight projectile to fly 260 to 300ft at a muzzle energy of only 1.6 joules and have someone notice the impact.

I'm not at all trying to put down airsoft and the range you guys get out of them. Before First strike, thats what I always envied. But airsoft just isn't that prominent here in NYC to really get into it. Yeah there are players, but there are no near by fields. I was exposed to both at the same time. And years later I just ended up playing paintball first I guess. I would do both if I could. School and work don't leave much time for two money and time consuming hobbies on top of other life things lol. I can definitely see it in the future. But I just feel like i enjoy the postive feedback of a round breaking on target that paintball gives. Thats just my opinion of course.