NVGs and ITAR - What?

[Kingsix]

Originally Posted by Zack The Ripper

Don't touch Gen1/1+. Terrible tubes. Requires IR even in areas with some ambient lighy. Save your money and buy a Gen 3 from someone on the forums.

Coming from the guy that started with a Armasight spark means it's pretty accurate.

If you still want to go Gen 1 stick with rifles scopes. They have larger lenses to capture ambient light. You do not need any special red dots or lasers to aim. That being said do not cheap out. I've had the luxury of trying the newer Gen 1s and the fisheye and hum is pretty much non existent. Rule of thumb if it's below $500 it's probably a Gen 0, stick with Pulsar, Yukon, armasight or sight mark.

[Ricochet]

To specifically answer your ITAR question, Gen 1 and Gen 1+ are not restricted, neither is Gen 2 and Gen 2+ in general. However, most night optic companies and suppliers will not ship outside of the US as a general rule. If you're dead set on a Gen 1, then make sure it's actually Gen 1+, and go with a Yukon and a good IR emmiter. Ensure you get the proper mount and protective equipment for it as well. I found all Gen 1 night vision that I have tried to be very frusterating. You need a good solid moonlight, it makes the darks darker, it doesn't see well through brush, dust or shadow, and you can usually do better with your naked eye. On top of that, the quality jump from Gen 1 and Gen 1+ to Gen 2 and Gen 2+ is like going from a Volkswagen beetle that doesn't run and has had a hobo podding, shitting and living in it, and then some highschool kids come by and burn it until it's just a rusty frame, to a high end Lamborghini with a million dollars in aftermarket custom upgrades. Gen 2 is not nearly as clear as Gen 2+ making the price point not worth buying down. Gen 3 and up has some very nice features like auto-gating and what not, but are not necessary for airsoft, especially because the price doubles or more from Gen 2+ to go up.

Canada has retailers that sell NVGs, and good quality ones too. There are other methods of getting them, such as the classifieds, but I'd also recommend for saving for a decent Gen 2+ unit. They can be had for $1,200 - $1,500 on occasion. After running all three generations of NVGs, I opted to wait until I had the money for Gen 2+ or better.

[ThunderCactus]

ITAR restrict night vision based on a system called "Figure of Merit" which roughly translates to "how awesome it is"
You'll see a stat on some spec sheets "FOM". Anything above 1500 is ITAR restricted.
FOM is determined by multiplying the resolution/mm of a tube by the signal to noise ratio.
So if you have 45L/mm resolution and 35:1 signal to noise, you're at FOM 1575

So you CAN get gen3, but it has to fall under FOM 1500, which would make it pretty terrible gen3.

Most gen2 falls between FOM 1100-1800
ALL gen1 falls below FOM 1500

Now, one thing you have to understand about the NVG community is they typically don't understand that for most people, $3000+ is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on something you'll use twice a year, especially when your gun only cost $350. When you've got 2 PTW's and $2000 in gear, $2200 on a high end gen2 unit is not so bad.
So pretty much everyone with gen2 or gen3 is going to recommend gen2 or gen3, because it IS honestly way the hell better than gen1.

BUT, that being said, the top end gen1 tubes are still better than nothing. I used a gen1 yukon for about 4 years, I still got kills with it, it still came in handy, and it only cost me $600.
The downside with gen2, is the "affordable" gen2 stuff in the ~$1200 range, is also crap.
I've seen a few cheaper gen2 tubes and you can see people at 120ft, but there's so much damn noise there's no way you can tell who's team they're on. The top end gen1 doesn't have much gain, but it's got zero noise.

So realistically, here are the performance gaps:
Yukon gen1 - $600
Gen2-HP - $2200
Gen3 - $2600-$3300

So as you can plainly see, massive jump from gen1 to good gen2.
I'm running that $2200 gen2 right now, and I really couldn't handle anything worse for noise, and that's coming from a guy that ran gen1 for 4 years.
You do want to strive to have gen2, BUT, it's like an airsoft gun. We don't recommend systema PTW's to brand new players.
You get them to buy a decent $300 G&G, then give them a taste of the PTW, then they'll eventually go spend the money on it.
Gen1 will hold it's value fairly well anyway, and it's WAY the hell easier to sell used gen1 for $300 than it is used gen2 for $2000. (Just look at how long PTW's hang around sometimes)

All gen1 is gen1+, and all gen2 made after 1970 is gen2+. Ignore the plus signs, they're gimmicks.

One thing you may want to look into that nobody around here knows very much about (me either) is digital gen1. Always get high end when dealing with gen1, but supposedly the digital stuff is pretty comparable to gen2 and between the two price ranges.
Only major downside that I know of is they go through batteries pretty quick. But worth looking into.

[Chemo]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

ITAR restrict night vision based on a system called "Figure of Merit" which roughly translates to "how awesome it is."

I think that was the most no BS way to explain ITAR haha, right on mate.

[daishi]

Can someone recommend some good gen2(+?) devices? I cannot afford a gen3...

And were exactly owuld you get protection for them, like lense covers for holosights and red dots....

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by daishi

Can someone recommend some good gen2(+?) devices? I cannot afford a gen3.

PM Qlong, see what he has in stock.

[JLiang]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I'm going to save for a bit more and see where that lands me down the road.

Appreciate all the great info.